Sniperness' Caitlyn - L2Wanted

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AreYouReady2Die

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Senior Member

02-02-2011

Not sure who said madrids, don't think anyone did wriggles latern uses the razors, but a small amount of armor does a lot, add in the creep kill 30 damage and lifsteal it owns.

And I love to kill caits with no, AS and crit, their damage is about 1/3 of mine for about 60 more ult damage


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AIM7Sparrow

Senior Member

02-02-2011

I highly encourage everyone to read the conclusion section of my guide carefully and think about the comments I've made concerning Caitlyn vs. Ashe.


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AIM7Sparrow

Senior Member

02-04-2011

Still get the feeling tons of non-believers out there. Bump.


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ZehNetoBR

Senior Member

02-04-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniperness View Post
Thanks for your response. I will say that I only take damage marks. Both quints and masteries focus on armor penetration so I'm just a bit confused what you mean by "pure AD" for my runes.
Well, you said Flat damage runes. For flat damage I understand it is AD runes, isn't that right? Well, turns out that armor penetration works for both auto-attacks and her skills, so it's a win-win for whatever build you're going for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniperness View Post
Also just as an overall note to your item build, we seem to disagree on the most effective way to play Caitlyn. It seems as if you favor her Q and R whereas I favor auto-attacks. That's fine if that be the case. Just know that if I'm wrong and that you actually do enjoy a stronger auto-attack my build will heavily out-dps the one you suggested.
Precisely. You focus her auto-attacks, while I try to pump them altogether, auto-attacks and skills. Her auto-attacks are good, but just part of her. If you focus so hard on her auto-attacks, you'll probably get screwed whenever laning agaisnt, say, Miss Fortune. And it doesn't even need to be a good one. Cait's critical isn't naturally high, so I don't like investing into it. Instead, I prefer to enhance what I believe to be her strong points.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniperness View Post
Personally I feel that it's a hard truth to accept that Caitlyn's Q and R really aren't supposed to be used as often as people would like them to be. They just have extremely limited use in team fights. They are good for ganks and for the laning phase and therein lies her advantage over other carries but when you wake up and accept the reality that your auto-attack is just simply more useful in team fights you will realize to build her like a traditional carry and not just pure attack damage/armor pen.
I guess this is up to playstyle. A well-placed Q is awfully painful and might make the difference on a teamfight. Usually I go for auto-attacking til I get the 8th shot, then I strike and proceed to Q.

It is true that her skills aren't half as spammable as people would like to. However, I seldom have problems with mana, because she seems so easy to time them with her auto-attacks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniperness View Post
Regardless though, thanks for your response and good luck!
Thanks, same to you! I'm all for efficient Caitlyn players, no matter in which way.


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AIM7Sparrow

Senior Member

02-04-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZehNetoBR View Post
Well, you said Flat damage runes. For flat damage I understand it is AD runes, isn't that right? Well, turns out that armor penetration works for both auto-attacks and her skills, so it's a win-win for whatever build you're going for.



Precisely. You focus her auto-attacks, while I try to pump them altogether, auto-attacks and skills. Her auto-attacks are good, but just part of her. If you focus so hard on her auto-attacks, you'll probably get screwed whenever laning agaisnt, say, Miss Fortune. And it doesn't even need to be a good one. Cait's critical isn't naturally high, so I don't like investing into it. Instead, I prefer to enhance what I believe to be her strong points.
I get damage reds because they are far superior on Caitlyn for her early game than armor pen. It makes Q and your auto attack do ridiculous damage, especially when combined with doran's blade.


Also, you can't "pump them all together." There's a certain amount of money you have each game. There's no possibly way that with the same money, you're getting as effective as an aoutattack that my build is while boosting Q and R to their maxes. It's a give or take. And the simple fact remains that with end game items, auto attack does more DPS than Qing in between auto attacks. It's a 1 second channel with some animation delays and can't crit. My IE crits do about the same as Q's end game.


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ZehNetoBR

Senior Member

02-04-2011

Of course I can't have same auto-attack damage as you. But that's exactly the point: I don't she's about auto-attacking. It is a part of her, important for sure, but just a part. There are other champs that do that role so much better than her. So, instead of it getting something that IMO is average and making it very good, I rather get something that is already very good and making it epic.

And yes, it's true that her auto-attacks are nasty end-game, but I still deal more damage with Q, when using my build. Besides, her auto-attacks can only hit a target per time, unlike her Q, which can hit several at once. This makes her skills way more useful for teamfights than her right-clicking.


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Eledhan

Senior Member

02-04-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniperness View Post
I get damage reds because they are far superior on Caitlyn for her early game than armor pen. It makes Q and your auto attack do ridiculous damage, especially when combined with doran's blade.
I'd like to do an analysis of this, but I would imagine that it's going to be VERY close...

If I get around to doing it today, I'll post my findings for ya.

Quote:
Also, you can't "pump them all together." There's a certain amount of money you have each game. There's no possibly way that with the same money, you're getting as effective as an aoutattack that my build is while boosting Q and R to their maxes. It's a give or take. And the simple fact remains that with end game items, auto attack does more DPS than Qing in between auto attacks. It's a 1 second channel with some animation delays and can't crit. My IE crits do about the same as Q's end game.
Yeah, you're absolutely right here...IE crits deal ridiculous damage compared to the ability.


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Eledhan

Senior Member

02-04-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZehNetoBR View Post
Of course I can't have same auto-attack damage as you. But that's exactly the point: I don't she's about auto-attacking. It is a part of her, important for sure, but just a part. There are other champs that do that role so much better than her. So, instead of it getting something that IMO is average and making it very good, I rather get something that is already very good and making it epic.
I think you have missed the point...

Sniper's whole strategy is to use Caitlyn's extreme early game advantage to snowball into a phenomenal late game build based on auto attacks. His strategy is to build up her early game bonuses (Peacemaker) right of the bat, and then to focus on what wins games in the end (auto attack).

Quote:
And yes, it's true that her auto-attacks are nasty end-game, but I still deal more damage with Q, when using my build. Besides, her auto-attacks can only hit a target per time, unlike her Q, which can hit several at once. This makes her skills way more useful for teamfights than her right-clicking.
Actually, her skills are pitiful for team fights once they've started. Yeah, sure, Peacemaker works like a charm for poking, but after the fight is going? It sucks. Plain and simple.

In the 1 second it takes for you to charge up Peacemaker, you are going to get wasted by an opponent.

Sniper's concept of focusing on her abilities for the laning phase and auto attacks for the team fights is spot-on, and I have to say...I was making the mistake of trying to make her abilities so much better...

You do realize that an IE critical will deal more damage than a Peacemaker shot, right? In which case, IE + PD is much better than any other possible itemization you could come up with.


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Eledhan

Senior Member

02-04-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eledhan View Post
I'd like to do an analysis of this, but I would imagine that it's going to be VERY close...

If I get around to doing it today, I'll post my findings for ya.
So...

I started to do this analysis, and for my initial research, I checked the common solo mid champion's starting armor....

It's less than what is penetrated by your Quints...so flat AD runes really are better!

Good call!


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Skeleton Jáck

Senior Member

02-04-2011

As one of the best range auto attack champions in game, Caitlyn is designed for a Frozen Mallet. And almost all Caitlyn players ignore it. It's not about the damage or the hp. It's about the perma slow on a 650 range auto attack. If you engage they are not running away. If they are chasing you kite. It's pretty simple.

If you play Caitlyn, after you Boots and IE or BT, build a FM.


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