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LF Christian men and women (and anyone who enjoys discussions of faith/religion)

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Amnesiak

Junior Member

10-05-2014

Quote:
Ir0nt0mato:
Ah, there's the true colors of the agnostic who lives a "moral life". At the end of the day, Kim, when I challenge your beliefs, you'll call me holier than thou, when I sit silently, you'll ask me why I believe what I believe. Kim the only flawed logic is you trying to justify why you live the way you do, your set in your beliefs and your hateful to those who challenge them.

It's fine, insult me with names, do whatever you can to justify the way you live, but at the end of the day, to say no one has any kind of responsibility for the crimes that they commit is the most insane thing I've ever heard. Let me show you an example of flawed logic: "Whenever I do something against my morals, I think heavily on it, and I definitely feel bad and try to improve the situation and ensure it never happens again."

Kim, you seem like an educated lady, but even I can't understand how the concept of relative morality alludes you. Your entire life is colored by your perspective, you are not objective nor are you fit to call yourself a good or bad person, yet you do this anyway, with no ground to stand upon.

"Maybe you were just really screwed up and used an always-changing moral code to escape "judgment," but don't assume everyone does that."

Insult me, be cruel, say what you want about me, but understand that the truth must be spoken, Kim, even if people don't want to hear it. "If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you. Remember what I told you: ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also. They will treat you this way because of my name, for they do not know the one who sent me. If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin. Whoever hates me hates my Father as well. If I had not done among them the works no one else did, they would not be guilty of sin. As it is, they have seen, and yet they have hated both me and my Father. But this is to fulfill what is written in their Law: ‘They hated me without reason.’" John 15:18-25

I'm not here to condemn you, Kim. Unfortunately, this is text and I wish I could convey a kinder tone, but realize that I only teach this message out of love, not hate. I don't hate you Kim, you seem like an extremely kind-hearted and well-intentioned person, thank you for hearing what I've had to say up to this point, even if your last response was a bit more hostile. God bless, Kim!


I don't need a God bless. I don't want one. I merely would like you to address my beliefs without having a holier-than-thou attitude. And wherein did I say that no one should be punished for their crimes? Where? Oh, that's right, I didn't say that. You are full of assumptions, unfortunately. Assuming that I want to attack your lifestyle, assuming that I don't think crimes should be punished, and assuming that your lifestyle is the best. I disagree, and I am allowed to. Your beliefs are no more valid than mine. I don't need to "justify the way I live." I am perfectly happy with the way I live, and if you aren't, that's your problem. Not mine.


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Ir0nt0mato

Senior Member

10-06-2014

Quote:
Amnesiak:
I don't need a God bless. I don't want one. I merely would like you to address my beliefs without having a holier-than-thou attitude. And wherein did I say that no one should be punished for their crimes? Where? Oh, that's right, I didn't say that. You are full of assumptions, unfortunately. Assuming that I want to attack your lifestyle, assuming that I don't think crimes should be punished, and assuming that your lifestyle is the best. I disagree, and I am allowed to. Your beliefs are no more valid than mine. I don't need to "justify the way I live." I am perfectly happy with the way I live, and if you aren't, that's your problem. Not mine.

I'm not giving you a "holier-than-thou attitude", I'm giving you a response and challenging you in the way you live your life, this is supposed to help you look at it in a new perspective. You came to me sharing your beliefs and opening them up to scrutiny, I didn't come to you. Also, I never said that you don't want criminals to be punished, I said that you thinking that no one is truly bad and that fear/habit/insanity give a bad person license to do whatever bad deed they want, is insane thinking on your part.

"Of course this is bad, it's horrible. Monstrous. But inside himself he also had love-- he had a regular relationship, he had friends. He felt compassion toward these people, even if his empathy stopped there. No one is wholly evil. No one."


This statement is meaningless, it doesn't have any context, it's just you saying no one can be truly evil because they might have done a good thing. Even a wicked man will do good for someone who's done good to them, it does them no credit to do that good deed.

Either way, the actual reason I gave up with this discussion and trying to format my thoughts is because you yourself were the one who changed their tone in this. You keep trying to tell me that you're open to other religions, but you aren't, you have your beliefs and when you respond you simply reaffirm these beliefs to yourself. It's like you admit to having relative morals yet you treat them as absolute when you respond back to me.

Kim, you're a hypocrite in the way that you think and thus there's no real reason to keep discussing with you. Like I said, you seem kind, but at least when it comes to a discussion or debate, you should never bring your emotions into it. I don't think I'm better than you as a person, but I do think you need to loosen your grip of that relative perspective before you go around calling others with faith, hateful names.


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vargo

Senior Member

10-06-2014

i dont think the bible is legit or any bible for that matter still might be a god or whatnot just I do not think those books carry any weight


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Amnesiak

Junior Member

10-06-2014

Quote:
Ir0nt0mato:
I'm not giving you a "holier-than-thou attitude", I'm giving you a response and challenging you in the way you live your life, this is supposed to help you look at it in a new perspective. You came to me sharing your beliefs and opening them up to scrutiny, I didn't come to you. Also, I never said that you don't want criminals to be punished, I said that you thinking that no one is truly bad and that fear/habit/insanity give a bad person license to do whatever bad deed they want, is insane thinking on your part.

"Of course this is bad, it's horrible. Monstrous. But inside himself he also had love-- he had a regular relationship, he had friends. He felt compassion toward these people, even if his empathy stopped there. No one is wholly evil. No one."


This statement is meaningless, it doesn't have any context, it's just you saying no one can be truly evil because they might have done a good thing. Even a wicked man will do good for someone who's done good to them, it does them no credit to do that good deed.

Either way, the actual reason I gave up with this discussion and trying to format my thoughts is because you yourself were the one who changed their tone in this. You keep trying to tell me that you're open to other religions, but you aren't, you have your beliefs and when you respond you simply reaffirm these beliefs to yourself. It's like you admit to having relative morals yet you treat them as absolute when you respond back to me.

Kim, you're a hypocrite in the way that you think and thus there's no real reason to keep discussing with you. Like I said, you seem kind, but at least when it comes to a discussion or debate, you should never bring your emotions into it. I don't think I'm better than you as a person, but I do think you need to loosen your grip of that relative perspective before you go around calling others with faith, hateful names.


LOL. When did I call you hateful names? I said I was getting frustrated talking to you because everything you believe you can defend based on basically faith in one book that was written by flawed humans. You've still not addressed my point on that. You are avoiding it. Secondly, you're right- I don't think anyone is truly evil. I think there are definitely bad people, but nobody has only bad qualities about them, and everyone has at some point or another done something good. NOBODY is wholly bad. That was my only point with that. And you're twisting it into this whole question of my morals. You are judgmental and I am calling you out for it. You have nothing to support your beliefs, like me, but at least I admit it. My beliefs, like yours, are completely subjective and we believe them and cling to them because they're what we know, they're familiar, and they make sense to us. But your religious beliefs have no more validity than mine. And you thinking that your religion is somehow more valid or better than my beliefs is what is giving you this holier than thou attitude. I highly suggest you examine yourself. People are down voting you not because you're religious, but because you're intolerant and have no evidence behind what you say besides meaningless passages out of a book. Your book is no more special than any other book. You cannot prove God inspire those words. And it is interesting to see you avoid talking about that.


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Weltall8000

Senior Member

10-06-2014

Quote:
you have your beliefs and when you respond you simply reaffirm these beliefs to yourself.


That's exactly what you are doing.


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Ir0nt0mato

Senior Member

10-06-2014

Quote:
Amnesiak:
LOL. When did I call you hateful names? I said I was getting frustrated talking to you because everything you believe you can defend based on basically faith in one book that was written by flawed humans. You've still not addressed my point on that. You are avoiding it. Secondly, you're right- I don't think anyone is truly evil. I think there are definitely bad people, but nobody has only bad qualities about them, and everyone has at some point or another done something good. NOBODY is wholly bad. That was my only point with that. And you're twisting it into this whole question of my morals. You are judgmental and I am calling you out for it. You have nothing to support your beliefs, like me, but at least I admit it. My beliefs, like yours, are completely subjective and we believe them and cling to them because they're what we know, they're familiar, and they make sense to us. But your religious beliefs have no more validity than mine. And you thinking that your religion is somehow more valid or better than my beliefs is what is giving you this holier than thou attitude. I highly suggest you examine yourself. People are down voting you not because you're religious, but because you're intolerant and have no evidence behind what you say besides meaningless passages out of a book. Your book is no more special than any other book. You cannot prove God inspire those words. And it is interesting to see you avoid talking about that.

I'm not avoiding your point, I'm forcing you to reconcile with the fact that you have no basis to say anything is good or evil, period. Before we move onto the subject of faith vs. evidence you have to come to terms with the hypocrisy of the way you think. This is the one problem with text and people who are very argumentative like yourself, they tend to skip over points or address them poorly. I'm not avoiding any of your other points, I'm simply forcing you to see the error in your own logic before we move on, this isn't a point we can simply "agree to disagree" on. A large portion of your world view and argument rest on this lack of authority to declare anything as good or evil.

If I didn't think my beliefs were more valid than others then I'd be a hypocrite to my beliefs, it's the same line of thinking that anyone has. In an argument or discussion everyone has the right to maintain and support their beliefs. Either way, you saying my attitude is that of a "judgmental religious person" and accusing me of acting "holier-than-thou" is an insult. I'm sorry if my beliefs or my argument offends you, the intention of this thread was not to argue or at least have a fairer discussion on Skype vs. the forum. Either way, people need to know about this man named Jesus Christ. If you want to insult me go ahead, but if that's really your only reason for posting then I'd suggest you take your comments and opinions elsewhere.


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Weltall8000

Senior Member

10-06-2014

Quote:
I'm not avoiding your point, I'm forcing you to reconcile with the fact that you have no basis to say anything is good or evil, period.


Yet, you somehow you can with a book that's proven inaccurate?

Quote:
Before we move onto the subject of faith vs. evidence you have to come to terms with the hypocrisy of the way you think.


Evidence? Oh, that stuff that you just keep disregarding when it works against you.

Quote:
This is the one problem with text and people who are very argumentative like yourself, they tend to skip over points or address them poorly.


Noting, that you're argumentative yourself and skip or poorly address counterarguments constantly.

Quote:
I'm not avoiding any of your other points, I'm simply forcing you to see the error in your own logic before we move on, this isn't a point we can simply "agree to disagree" on.


Though, isn't that kind of your MO when faced with things that you don't like, but cannot refute?

Quote:

If I didn't think my beliefs were more valid than others then I'd be a hypocrite to my beliefs, it's the same line of thinking that anyone has.


Your beliefs already are self contradictory, thousands of papers have been written on the topic of contradictions within the Bible itself.

Also, didn't he just point out that he doesn't?

Quote:
In an argument or discussion everyone has the right to maintain and support their beliefs.


But it doesn't make them have equal standing.

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Either way, you saying my attitude is that of a "judgmental religious person" and accusing me of acting "holier-than-thou" is an insult.


The truth stings, huh?

Quote:
I'm sorry if my beliefs or my argument offends you, the intention of this thread was not to argue or at least have a fairer discussion on Skype vs. the forum.


How would Skype make it fairer? So you could just talk over them? Here, you're able to take your time, compose a piece that is reflective of your position, and present it with thought and revision. If anything, this is a better medium than Skype for a debate.

Quote:
Either way, people need to know about this man named Jesus Christ.


That he never existed? Because historically, little evidence suggests he did. In all likelihood, he's a fabrication after the fact.

The myth of Jesus doesn't do anything positive for the world that couldn't be done without it. We can teach children to be kind and to love one another, Jesus is not necessary for that. With the myth of him, we still have all kinds of problems in the world, that said myth isn't preventing or solving.

Quote:
If you want to insult me go ahead, but if that's really your only reason for posting then I'd suggest you take your comments and opinions elsewhere.


As you insult him for giving you the courtesy of even taking you seriously. Way to go!


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Noro

Senior Member

10-06-2014

> ITT

Christians that post quotes from a book no one believes is credible to prove their point.