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Rün - the Northern Watchman

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Angeluslight

Senior Member

09-09-2014

Alright, I'll loan a hand regarding the base stats:

Overall, it looks like he's meant to be a hybrid fighter class. His ranges also leave it somewhat ambiguous to melee vs ranged as it also seems to be an in-between factor of a hybrid between them. I'm going to treat this as a melee fighter considering the CC in his passive.

HP - The HP gain per level is quite extensive and represents that of a tanky champion. With ranges and class taken into account, I would keep the growth between 80-90. A fully-fledged tank such as Leona has an HP gain of about 94 per level. Anything above 100 per level for a non-tank should be out of the question.

HP Regen - A very mild gain per level. Usually the more sustain a champion has, the lower their regeneration speeds are to balance it out. Rün has no mana or HP sustain of any kind, and considering the suggestion about lowering his HP gain per level, there should be room to increase this.

Mana - Seems fair enough. This should keep him conservative enough of his ability-usage during early game and would be later backed up by AP items with mana boosts.

Mana regen - Usually mana regen has a gain per level. Even for champions that use exclusively AP only. I would suggest a growth of .5 or .6 per level.

Attack Damage - Kind of low for the fighter role, especially one that relies on auto attacks for many utilities. I would say that it should be bumped up to somewhere around the realm of 48 (2.7) or so. Even then, that's kind of low, but I'm keeping in mind the true damage factor in one of his abilities.

Attack Speed - The base is fine, but the growth per level for attack speed is done in percentages. For Rün, I'd say something like 2.5% per level should be fair.

AP - No champion contains an AP base or gain per level. This can be taken off entirely to save space.

Movement Speed - 342 is a bit of an odd number for movement speed. They are typically kept in increments of 5, so I'd just round to the nearest number as such for 340 movement speed. That should be an appropriate speed for his class and keep the number calculations on par with how they are founded.

Armor - That's a lot of armor per level. Using Leona as a reference again, she has a base of [22 (+3.1)] armor. With the amount of potential damage output Rün has, he would best be kept out of the range of genuine tanks when it comes to his stats. For a fighter of his type, I would say maybe 15 (+1.9) off the top of my head.

Magic Resist - Standard number for rangers because it does not gain anything per level. I did notice that he had a range of 300, but still kept my mindset along the lines of melee because of the overall design of the champion. His passive also would suggest that he would be a melee champion to earn such heavy CC effects, especially when they can stack with item effects. If things do change to where he's more of a typical melee champion, remember to change the gain per level to (1.25).

Range - As noted before, this suggest ranged, while many aspects suggest tanky melee. His stats and abilities delve into deep core aspects of both melee and ranged champions, taking the best aspects of each into one, creating for some confusion and overpoweredness.


I'm keeping this review mainly on the stats, but I will say that a combination between AP/AD and Ranged/Melee aspects needs to be handled quite delicately. Not just to prevent overpowered abilities, but also the fact that such a champion has a much wider range of items to use than most, so utilities themselves have to be kept in check.


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Lysejack

Senior Member

09-09-2014

Quote:
Angeluslight:
Alright, I'll loan a hand regarding the base stats:

Overall, it looks like he's meant to be a hybrid fighter class. His ranges also leave it somewhat ambiguous to melee vs ranged as it also seems to be an in-between factor of a hybrid between them. I'm going to treat this as a melee fighter considering the CC in his passive.

HP - The HP gain per level is quite extensive and represents that of a tanky champion. With ranges and class taken into account, I would keep the growth between 80-90. A fully-fledged tank such as Leona has an HP gain of about 94 per level. Anything above 100 per level for a non-tank should be out of the question.

HP Regen - A very mild gain per level. Usually the more sustain a champion has, the lower their regeneration speeds are to balance it out. Rün has no mana or HP sustain of any kind, and considering the suggestion about lowering his HP gain per level, there should be room to increase this.

Mana - Seems fair enough. This should keep him conservative enough of his ability-usage during early game and would be later backed up by AP items with mana boosts.

Mana regen - Usually mana regen has a gain per level. Even for champions that use exclusively AP only. I would suggest a growth of .5 or .6 per level.

Attack Damage - Kind of low for the fighter role, especially one that relies on auto attacks for many utilities. I would say that it should be bumped up to somewhere around the realm of 48 (2.7) or so. Even then, that's kind of low, but I'm keeping in mind the true damage factor in one of his abilities.

Attack Speed - The base is fine, but the growth per level for attack speed is done in percentages. For Rün, I'd say something like 2.5% per level should be fair.

AP - No champion contains an AP base or gain per level. This can be taken off entirely to save space.

Movement Speed - 342 is a bit of an odd number for movement speed. They are typically kept in increments of 5, so I'd just round to the nearest number as such for 340 movement speed. That should be an appropriate speed for his class and keep the number calculations on par with how they are founded.

Armor - That's a lot of armor per level. Using Leona as a reference again, she has a base of [22 (+3.1)] armor. With the amount of potential damage output Rün has, he would best be kept out of the range of genuine tanks when it comes to his stats. For a fighter of his type, I would say maybe 15 (+1.9) off the top of my head.

Magic Resist - Standard number for rangers because it does not gain anything per level. I did notice that he had a range of 300, but still kept my mindset along the lines of melee because of the overall design of the champion. His passive also would suggest that he would be a melee champion to earn such heavy CC effects, especially when they can stack with item effects. If things do change to where he's more of a typical melee champion, remember to change the gain per level to (1.25).

Range - As noted before, this suggest ranged, while many aspects suggest tanky melee. His stats and abilities delve into deep core aspects of both melee and ranged champions, taking the best aspects of each into one, creating for some confusion and overpoweredness.


I'm keeping this review mainly on the stats, but I will say that a combination between AP/AD and Ranged/Melee aspects needs to be handled quite delicately. Not just to prevent overpowered abilities, but also the fact that such a champion has a much wider range of items to use than most, so utilities themselves have to be kept in check.

I had other plans while making him. And I was going to see what I could balance. I think the range is absurd; so I'm going to lower that. And I'm gonna raise base health. For the AP I was going to have a completely different passive that gives AP for every champion killed. (I imagine him to be a large hulking knight like the lich king from "The Legend of Spyro: a New Beginning" so I imagine a tanky brute) and I'm on a mobile device,and when o go into wide view, my keybad takes up half of my screen)


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ThePurpleHaze11

Junior Member

09-09-2014

Looks good! I like your to champs a lot. Rün looks especially fun to play. Sorry I couldn't pull up my client, this is on mobile but you can add me! I hope you remember the name from earlier today too.


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Lysejack

Senior Member

09-09-2014

Quote:
ThePurpleHaze11:
Looks good! I like your to champs a lot. Rün looks especially fun to play. Sorry I couldn't pull up my client, this is on mobile but you can add me! I hope you remember the name from earlier today too.

little late for a review nate, but I'll friend ya next chance I can get on.


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Lysejack

Senior Member

09-10-2014

I'm gonna go in later and get a scanner so I can upload some of my sketches for Rün


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junglerboy16

Senior Member

09-10-2014

I like the whole concept of him being an ancient being connected to the watchers, but isn't the current idea that the watchers were from the void/banished to the void?

Stats: normalize all of the numbers here. having precisely 2000 hp is unimportant, but having a weird 88.44 per level is really odd, change to 88 per level or some other round number. Same kind of things for all the other stats, especially his hp5, this would give him the highest hp5 in the whole game even over champs who have their kit based around having high hp5 and that is too high. (atm, Heimerdinger is the only champ with flat hp5 that high, but it makes up his entire passive. Mundo obviously surpasses this with his passive, but again, it is his whole passive to have hp5 that high.)

Passive: Decent enough except it is a permaslow, which is really unhealthy for the game, lacks counter play or strategy, and results in heavy snowballing. If he ever got ahead, then his permaslow means he could keep slaughtering the same poor fool over and over again and they wouldn't be able to run away from him.

Q: This is weird and very uninteractive. it feels like a combination of Braum's passive and Aatrox's toggled W, but free of cost and procs on first hit. Need to rework this one almost entirely. It fits thematically, but again like his passive is very low interactivity.

W: Really long cool down, absurdly high mana cost, low low low damage and scaling and a weirdly tacked on stun. Doesn't seem well thought out at all.

E: Really weird skill. Starts as a true damage skillshot, but turns into a magic damage DoT, and scales off AD? At least it doesn't have the strange unnecessary CC of his Q or W. Again, really weirdly high mana cost. Mana costs should never exceed 100 on a non ultimate skill.

R: this one is just a pile of everything you could possibly want (which is bad because it means no counter play), but does not fit his kit or his theme. Free crit and crit damage on a guy who scales mostly off AP is just nonsensical, and then getting a stacking slow from your passive and the aura just makes this a really confusing Ult.

TLDR: Make up your mind! everything in his kit is conflicting with itself and has no cohesion. He has a huge amount of CC in his kit, scales with AP on most things, has completely random ratios and then his ult randomly makes him a tankbuster melee ADC??? Please rework this! the concept is fine and you write one heck of a lore, but his kit is rather sloppy and poorly thought through. The way that you kind of gave him some of everything means his kit is both boring and overpowered (weird combination), and for a champion with such a cool backstory, I think he deserves a little better.

EDIT: Sorry, but on reading through my own post, I realize it sounded pretty harsh. This is a great concept and just need fixing up is all.


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Lysejack

Senior Member

09-10-2014

Quote:
junglerboy16:
I like the whole concept of him being an ancient being connected to the watchers, but isn't the current idea that the watchers were from the void/banished to the void?

Stats: normalize all of the numbers here. having precisely 2000 hp is unimportant, but having a weird 88.44 per level is really odd, change to 88 per level or some other round number. Same kind of things for all the other stats, especially his hp5, this would give him the highest hp5 in the whole game even over champs who have their kit based around having high hp5 and that is too high. (atm, Heimerdinger is the only champ with flat hp5 that high, but it makes up his entire passive. Mundo obviously surpasses this with his passive, but again, it is his whole passive to have hp5 that high.)

Passive: Decent enough except it is a permaslow, which is really unhealthy for the game, lacks counter play or strategy, and results in heavy snowballing. If he ever got ahead, then his permaslow means he could keep slaughtering the same poor fool over and over again and they wouldn't be able to run away from him.

Q: This is weird and very uninteractive. it feels like a combination of Braum's passive and Aatrox's toggled W, but free of cost and procs on first hit. Need to rework this one almost entirely. It fits thematically, but again like his passive is very low interactivity.

W: Really long cool down, absurdly high mana cost, low low low damage and scaling and a weirdly tacked on stun. Doesn't seem well thought out at all.

E: Really weird skill. Starts as a true damage skillshot, but turns into a magic damage DoT, and scales off AD? At least it doesn't have the strange unnecessary CC of his Q or W. Again, really weirdly high mana cost. Mana costs should never exceed 100 on a non ultimate skill.

R: this one is just a pile of everything you could possibly want (which is bad because it means no counter play), but does not fit his kit or his theme. Free crit and crit damage on a guy who scales mostly off AP is just nonsensical, and then getting a stacking slow from your passive and the aura just makes this a really confusing Ult.

TLDR: Make up your mind! everything in his kit is conflicting with itself and has no cohesion. He has a huge amount of CC in his kit, scales with AP on most things, has completely random ratios and then his ult randomly makes him a tankbuster melee ADC??? Please rework this! the concept is fine and you write one heck of a lore, but his kit is rather sloppy and poorly thought through. The way that you kind of gave him some of everything means his kit is both boring and overpowered (weird combination), and for a champion with such a cool backstory, I think he deserves a little better.

EDIT: Sorry, but on reading through my own post, I realize it sounded pretty harsh. This is a great concept and just need fixing up is all.

I imagine him as a armored goliath iceborn, so yea. Also his abilities are in queue for aj update or rework, I'm slowly going in and fixing everything, and I'm using: Braum, Nautlius, and Jarvan IV for base example.
passive is not perma slow, I'm going to lower the timer on the duration.
Q: I want it to function similar to switcheroo. The hammer and sword function first hit like jayce's transform first him, and the timer resets if you don't attack for a bit
W: I have rework to implement that works like riptide.
E: I believe it was a true ice spear, so true damage. With a magical dps
R: it is the fury of the freljord.


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junglerboy16

Senior Member

09-10-2014

Ok, some of that makes more sense, the Q and W definitely seem like they would have more potential, and the E is ok, but still, even if it is a true damage into magic damage DoT, it still should not scale off of AD. Just a rule of thumb: Magic damage doesn't scale with AD and Physical damage doesn't Scale with AP. Even if the DoT itself doesn't have any scaling, part of the damage of the skill scales with AD so it should deal Physical damage OR it should scale with AP instead. I still don't like the ult. it just seems a little out of place in a kit based off of tanky fighter skillsets. The combination of huge crit/damage increase with a slow aura seems a little mismatched. If you want a giant tanky brute of an iceborn, then it would make sense to have his most potent CC on his ult, but if you want more of a huge scary damaging fellow, the keep the ult roughly the same and instead change the other skills to bring them more in line with that theme.


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Lysejack

Senior Member

09-10-2014

Quote:
junglerboy16:
Ok, some of that makes more sense, the Q and W definitely seem like they would have more potential, and the E is ok, but still, even if it is a true damage into magic damage DoT, it still should not scale off of AD. Just a rule of thumb: Magic damage doesn't scale with AD and Physical damage doesn't Scale with AP. Even if the DoT itself doesn't have any scaling, part of the damage of the skill scales with AD so it should deal Physical damage OR it should scale with AP instead. I still don't like the ult. it just seems a little out of place in a kit based off of tanky fighter skillsets. The combination of huge crit/damage increase with a slow aura seems a little mismatched. If you want a giant tanky brute of an iceborn, then it would make sense to have his most potent CC on his ult, but if you want more of a huge scary damaging fellow, the keep the ult roughly the same and instead change the other skills to bring them more in line with that theme.

I am going to rework some aspect of his kit. So yea ult may change


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Hograhn

Senior Member

09-10-2014

Like him you need to add a cool down on the targets after reaching Max stacks and the stacks dissipate, as in when the stacks go away the cool down goes up like Brahms passive.
Q = awesome top lane bully
W= very interesting team fighter
E= poke poke poke
R= this is like stacking with inf edge or what?