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Riot, Destroy the League, Don't Erase it

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Galgus

Senior Member

09-28-2014

Quote:
WookieeCookie:
What more reason would two factions that strongly dislike each other need when faced with complete destruction? If you were to ask me, what makes it more interesting without the IoW is that Demacia, Noxus, and any other faction would have to actually negotiate, compromise, and scheme on their own; without being handheld by the omnipotent IoW and their master summoners.

Envision a clandestine meeting between Swain and Jarvan in a small sea side port, off the radar and without any public attention. Both know that the people of Noxus and Demacia would riot if they knew their leaders were plotting together, but time is running out. Unfortunately for them, not everyone is on board. LeBlanc has no love for Demacia, and she's grown tired of Noxian leadership. Noxus is facing the greatest threat in years, yet they're too busy coddling the enemy to fight back. The Black Rose has been waiting in the shadows for its time to rise to power, and that time is now.

While diplomacy and scheming are conducted under the constant ticking of the doomsday clock' two unlikely allies, Garen and Katarina; must set aside their differences to uncover a conspiracy that threatens to tear Runeterra's two greatest kingdoms apart. But in the end who can they really trust?


Or, with the IoW we could have something like:

The time has come! The endless horde of the Void have arrived and portals to another world have begun opening everywhere. Years without war have left Runeterra's kingdoms weaker than ever. Thankfully the IoW has prepared for this moment. Using the immense powers they possess they force Demacia and Noxus into a union that neither can resist. Despite protests, the IoW assumes controls of the world's greatest champions and destroys the void invasion before it even begins. All is normal once again, and the League of Legends can continue. The people of Runeterra safe in the knowledge that no harm, no change, no progress, can come to them under the diligent gaze of the IoW.

I'll be honest with you. There are a lot of possibilities with the second story, but it's a lot less interesting than the first. The difference is that without the IoW the characters of LoL drive the story. With the IoW these faceless wizards of infinite might control everything despite what cool characters, legends, politics or events happen.

I'd like to put a disclaimer, that everything I said above is completely made up. I'm not involved in writing stories, but it's the opportunities for our lore team and writers that really get me excited about the possibilities for upcoming content! The reason I put it out there is to hopefully get your guys' creative juices flowin' as well. There's a whole new world of plot twists waiting for us all to discover.




One of the cool things about disassociating the story of Runeterra with the game is that it gives better flexibility to the power of champions. In game Cho'Gath unique ability to grow stronger is reflected in his ultimate. When he eats something he gains more health and becomes bigger. For gameplay reasons this stacks up to 6 times, and then he receives no bonus afterwards. But in lore? Who's to say he'll cap out at all? Perhaps the nations of Runeterra wait too long debating about what to do, and Cho'Gath has grown to such a size that not even Singed's poisons launched from siege weapons can stop him!



How easy is it for Lissandra to kill Brand? She'll have to find him first won't she? Does she leave the Freljord often? Lissandra doesn't seem like the type to just wander around Runeterra. Does she have allies or minions that can do it for her? Does she need to lead them? Get them resources? Would Ashe or Sejunai have anything to say about it? Would they need to help her end Brand, or do they think she's the greater threat?

So many questions are opened up now that the IoW isn't there to take Lissandra and Brand put them in the room and say "Now Kiss!".



I'd take some time looking at Runaan's original post in this thread. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised to find that a lot of champions stories are not changing too much, even if the IoW is phased out. The core of each champion will remain. She used Orianna as an example. But let's look at another champion like say Lee Sin. A failed wizard who's penance was to become a monk. In the IoW version Lee Sin was an aspiring Summoner practicing magic outside of his control, in the new version, who's to say he can't still be an aspiring and confident wizard who's failure resulted in the deaths of hundreds of innocents?


It may not be the most accurate view, but my impression of the Institute of War was that their real power was a general consensus supporting them.

With Demacia, Noxus, Ionia, and Ashe's part of the Freljord backing them they could manage a rouge Noxus, but more than one major maverick or a loss of consensus support and they would be on thin ice.

I imagine that they would be trying to push a united response to a Void invasion rather than putting it down themselves.

The Institute of War has some teeth of its own, but they are ultimately a small fraction of what a united force could do.
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I also always imagined the summoner-champion relationship as a sort of partnership in the match.

For willing champions, it would indicate that the goals of the summoner and the champion aligned or that they had come to some mutually beneficial agreement.

(Some champions I pin as mostly mercenary.)

So I don't think that the IoW can necessarily "assume control" of any champions not willing to fight or directly under their control.

Also, I'd have liked to have seen a scenario where a rouge faction releases one of the chained champions under some deal - like Sejuani freeing Brand under the agreement that he hunt Lissandra.

He self-identified himself with this statement, which seems to show he has a sense of purpose directly at odds with Lissandra's vision of a frozen stasis.

"I am a creature of ever-lasting fire. I am a creature who burns away what needs to make way for what will be. I am a creature born to renew the world."
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All that said, I disliked how powerful summoners were implied to be in some lore.

I'd prefer them to be specialized to maintaining a mental link and casting smaller spells from afar: very much not talented battlemages.


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Takeyo Efthulc

Member

09-29-2014

I believe you meant to type "rogue," and I agree with you entirely. Too bad nobody on the current lore team sees it this way.

Matter of interest: I think Brand is a Watcher of sorts. I believe that there were originally both Frozen Watchers and Burning Watchers, so you might say that Brand is Kegan Rodhe possessed by the last of the Burning Watchers.

*Edited to correct inconsistencies*


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SchaakaKon

Senior Member

09-29-2014

Quote:
Takeyo Efthulc:

Matter of interest: I think Brand is possessed by a Watcher. I believe that there were originally both Frozen Watchers and Burning Watchers, so you might say that Brand is possessed by the last of the Burning Watchers.


You'd be wrong on many fronts, Brand is not the physical being you see in game, the body would be that of Kegan Rodhe (a viking from Lokfar). Brand is the fire elemental that possesses Kegan Rodhe. It is speculated that Brand was "a casualty of the Rune Wars" possibly formed from chaotic magic gone wild creating sentient beings of its own. Which is why the Institute of War was formed so that powerful city states do not use these cataclysmic magics against each other and obliterate Runeterra into a desolate mass (as in a UN'ish entity preventing country's from using nukes on each other).

Also, as far as we know, Watchers only possess and can bestow 'True Ice' and have not been known to use any fire abilities.


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Takeyo Efthulc

Member

09-29-2014

Quote:
SchaakaKon:
It is speculated that Brand was "a casualty of the Rune Wars" possibly formed from chaotic magic gone wild creating sentient beings of its own. Which is why the Institute of War was formed so that powerful city states do not use these cataclysmic magics against each other and obliterate Runeterra into a desolate mass (as in a UN'ish entity preventing country's from using nukes on each other).

Also, as far as we know, Watchers only possess and can bestow 'True Ice' and have not been known to use any fire abilities.


That is designated "speculation" so I'm speculating that there were such things as Burning Watchers, because the Watchers we hear of in relation to Lissandra are specified as Frozen Watchers, and because the way Brand describes himself and his ideals is very "Watcheresque."

You didn't really think that I meant to say Brand instead of Kegan Rodhe, but I'm glad you recalled the fellow's name and had fun calling me out


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FailTsukkomi

Senior Member

09-29-2014

so one thing I still don't understand is where the idea that the IoW and summoners are all powerful

just because they have can summon and channel their intentions through some mighty hero doesn't make them all powerful

nasuverse has pretty much the exact same thing with masters and servants and it works out fine. Masters(summoners) can control servants(champions) that are exponentially stronger than them in actual power but that doesn't mean the masters(summoners) can fix every problem on their own because the servants(champion) might have their own intentions and allegiances or principles(city-states).

hell, a good number of servants in type-moon still found ways to backstab their masters even though they can't even physically maintain their forms for long without them, on top of masters wielding command seals to force a servant to obey a direct order.

champions in league don't even have that limitation but I suppose somehow summoners and the iow are almighty.


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Takeyo Efthulc

Member

09-30-2014

Quote:
FailTsukkomi:
so one thing I still don't understand is where the idea that the IoW and summoners are all powerful

just because they have can summon and channel their intentions through some mighty hero doesn't make them all powerful

nasuverse has pretty much the exact same thing with masters and servants and it works out fine. Masters(summoners) can control servants(champions) that are exponentially stronger than them in actual power but that doesn't mean the masters(summoners) can fix every problem on their own because the servants(champion) might have their own intentions and allegiances or principles(city-states).

hell, a good number of servants in type-moon still found ways to backstab their masters even though they can't even physically maintain their forms for long without them, on top of masters wielding command seals to force a servant to obey a direct order.

champions in league don't even have that limitation but I suppose somehow summoners and the iow are almighty.


You're right of course. This is one of the things that makes it seem to me like someone was just flexing his/her power and influence with this decision. The supposed "reasons" behind it either make no sense, or are technically invalid, or are just fallacious. There is very little good hard sense backing up the decision, and the new writing clearly doesn't necessitate it. It can be very frustrating to watch something like this happen. I have experienced this kind of thing before, and experience tells me we won't make much headway, but I still hope for the best. All we can do with this is point things out the way we have been. Just keep shoving sense and perspective back onto the table.


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DarkElderGod

Junior Member

09-30-2014

Characters with the void theme also don't fit together with each other in any way. Malzahar, Kassadin, Vel'Koz, etc. They're all void related or from the void and yet there's no lore tying any of them together. It's like Riot just decided "OK, they're from the void. the void is there, that's where they came from, end of story." The void needs structure, a hierarchy of beings, species of horrors, a pantheon. LoL introduced the term Watcher. Watchers were supposed to be angels that essentially "fell" or came to earth and bred with human women to create the Nephilim. I'm sure Riot has their own particular definition for Watcher but nothing Lovecraftian for the void people? *sadface*


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Ace0fBlades

Junior Member

10-01-2014

I'm sure this has been mentioned but I'd still like to see summoners and the arena somehow explained in the plot, otherwise the lore just feels a little pointless personally i mean story is cool but it's still a story about a game and disconnecting the two entirely seems counter-productive to me. So even if it's just a small inserted explanation or something that would be fine I personally don't need an amazing plot to explain the summoners and the arena (fields of justice) but some sort of explanation would be cool, like maybe the league is more of a gladiatorial sport then a way to "solve" war and though the summoners are not omnipotent but they are still powerful so in exchange for participation in their favorite gladiatorial sport the champions get something they want, money, magic artifacts, experimental test subjects, or maybe just a friend (this being expressed by someone unlocking a champion/buying skins with IP/RP). would be one hell of a part-time job and could be kinda left in the background to allow for more character development, ect.