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@GhostCrawler

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Quepha

Senior Member

09-03-2014

trist's weakness is that she has no abilities that scale well into mid game. even if you pour all your skill points into W and E your damage will still fall off and you delay your lategame by a long while before you get your Q up to snuff. the reason she's so dominant right now is that IE is the only really good first item for adcs so everyone is trying to muscle through to this same power spike and trist's huge dip in effectiveness can be ignored. you need to fix adc itemization before you try to rebalance the adcs themselves.


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Umbra Gemini

Senior Member

09-03-2014

Quote:
Ghostcrawler:
Yeah, she needs nerfing. Realistically it is unlikely to happen before worlds. We like for those matches to take place on as stable a build as possible that has been thoroughly tested, so even very good changes can be ultimately risky. We also think it's reasonable for the players to expect that numbers won't go changing wildly right in the middle of worlds.

To clarify, she needs some sort of weakness. If we just lower her damage or something, players may just switch from her to Kog or someone which just substitutes one dominant ADC for another. Ideally we'd like to give her some trade-offs so that you can choose her for her strengths or avoid her because of her weaknesses.

Thank ****ing god


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ProfDrDeath

Senior Member

09-03-2014

Suggestion for weakness:
Early to mid game. She could basically become an AD carry you'd want to pump as much gold AND XP into as possible, instead of just gold.

Hence, my proposal:
- AS/lvl nerfed to 0%.
- Draw a Bead (passive): Tristana gains 2.5/3/3.5/4% AS and 3/5/7/9 range per level above the first. Scales at levels 6/11/16.


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Yasuo Carries OP

Senior Member

09-03-2014

Quote:
Ghostcrawler:
Yeah, she needs nerfing. Realistically it is unlikely to happen before worlds. We like for those matches to take place on as stable a build as possible that has been thoroughly tested, so even very good changes can be ultimately risky. We also think it's reasonable for the players to expect that numbers won't go changing wildly right in the middle of worlds.

To clarify, she needs some sort of weakness. If we just lower her damage or something, players may just switch from her to Kog or someone which just substitutes one dominant ADC for another. Ideally we'd like to give her some trade-offs so that you can choose her for her strengths or avoid her because of her weaknesses.

It sucks that every worlds game is going to be decided by who gets trist but I guess that's how it has to be.


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Zachrin

Senior Member

09-03-2014

Question: there has never really been a problem with LCS/Worlds being played a patch or two behind, usually when a new champ is released during the tournaments. It will suck to see Trist take over worlds, but why not at least nerf/rework her for the general population at least, and let worlds be played on a prior patch like they've done before?


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g07h4xf00

Senior Member

09-03-2014

Quote:
thefenceturtle:
It sucks that every worlds game is going to be decided by who gets trist but I guess that's how it has to be.

Except Koreans seldom play Trist and they will be the ones to win Worlds so


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CeruleanRain

Member

09-03-2014

she's just too safe. 550 base range that increases to 703. On top of that she has a targeted knockback that can hit other champs and a damaging escape that resets on kill or assist. Her E doesn't need grievous wounds either, it makes it hard for champs like Aatrox or any other champ with Spellvamp/lifesteal to do anything to her.


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ItemsGuy

Senior Member

09-03-2014

Quote:
Ghostcrawler:
Yeah, she needs nerfing. Realistically it is unlikely to happen before worlds. We like for those matches to take place on as stable a build as possible that has been thoroughly tested, so even very good changes can be ultimately risky. We also think it's reasonable for the players to expect that numbers won't go changing wildly right in the middle of worlds.

To clarify, she needs some sort of weakness. If we just lower her damage or something, players may just switch from her to Kog or someone which just substitutes one dominant ADC for another. Ideally we'd like to give her some trade-offs so that you can choose her for her strengths or avoid her because of her weaknesses.


I'd say some of the main problems with her are that not only does she have both considerable burst AND a huge DPS steroid (I'd say one of the biggest active steroids in the game, considering both its % increase and duration), dangerous earlygame AND hyperscaling lategame (with a comparatively weaker mid-game--but compare to Vayne, who also scales well into lategame but has a very weak earlygame and midgame to compensate), the highest consistent autoattack range AND two *really* powerful abilities to maintain it. She's another one of those champions who suffers from not having a very specific and unique goal, since she has enough of a lot of things to make her powerful but without many drawbacks (many of the older champions and even newer ones like Yasuo tend to fall into this problem, which can't really be fixed with simple nerfs).

Judging from your general purpose on the design team, I'm guessing your long-term plan for Tristana is going to be to find a defined set of strengths for her to embody, accompanied with correlating weaknesses (you use Kog as an example, who is a much healthier version of Tristana--he has a bunch of range, but it comes at an opportunity cost, and he also lacks any sort of mobility; one of the biggest problems I see with him is that his passive actually punishes his opponents for playing against him properly by giving him a big ol' AoE true damage nuke). That being said, hopefully the problems you're alluding to and the problems I've noticed are the same, and that a future rework ends up addressing them in a way that suits Tristana (on top of getting rid of that goddamn AP scaling on AD/physical champs--Sion's another huge offender in this regard too, but I guess we'll see how the relaunch pans out).


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Dunkilius

Senior Member

09-03-2014

Quote:
thefenceturtle:
It sucks that every worlds game is going to be decided by who gets trist but I guess that's how it has to be.

Koreans don't pick trist so much and belive me they will stomp your precious NA teams.

They will either pick twitch or kog and roll over them. Game will be decided who can suck adc's D better and Koreans are better at it.


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Ghostcrawler

Lead Game Designer

Follow Ghostcrawler on Twitter

09-03-2014

I said: To clarify, she needs some sort of weakness. If we just lower her damage or something, players may just switch from her to Kog or someone which just substitutes one dominant ADC for another. Ideally we'd like to give her some trade-offs so that you can choose her for her strengths or avoid her because of her weaknesses.

You said: Remember when you said the whack a mole strategy was something you were trying to steer away from? Yet you just keep doing it.

I think we are saying the same thing.