Twisted Fate's Rework

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PuppetSoul

Senior Member

01-17-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor Awesome View Post
First, the ability to instantly travel anywhere. Not inherently flawed, because LoL is well balanced in the regard that there is a definite limit to what one man can do. It is not in Twisted Fate's mobility that the fault lies--which is good, because it's probably his most fun feature; this should probably stay as-is.
This is widely accepted to be the most overpowered aspect of him.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor Awesome View Post
Second, the ability to rapidly and efficiently destroy minions, and harass at a distance. Again, no fundamental fault, as these are natural things for an omnipresent champion to be able to do; what good is the ability to be anywhere if you can't accomplish anything upon arrival?
That's generally referred to as "balance". Unlimited mobility would have to be balanced off with zero ability.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor Awesome View Post
Third, and most importantly, the ability to see where all enemies are infallibly. Definitely flawed, as this eliminates a large amount of skill for all parties involved: a bad Twisted Fate using Destiny isn't much worse than a good Twisted Fate using it--he gets the same effect either way, only differing in the timing; and, the enemy team has absolutely no way of avoiding the skill or anticipating its use, regardless of how good of players they are. Their best hope is to Cleanse immediately and hope the entire enemy team didn't notice them blip. This is all on top of the obvious detriment of instantly foiling any tactics the enemy employed in setting up an ambush, sneaking between lanes, etc., with the push of a single button.
Honestly, Destiny wouldn't be that big of a problem if it didn't also slowcap you, and if CM didn't have Gate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor Awesome View Post
It is the all-too-lethal combination of a foolproof hard disable with ultimate mobility and reconnaissance that makes Twisted Fate into the monster he is.
The culprit is his huge mobility. Sion has similar spike (high AP AoE nuke and a high AP stun), but because he can't teleport anywhere on the map, he's not rigged like TF.


The reason TF is still rigged is Gate. Period.


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Nostredeus

Junior Member

01-17-2010

How to remake him imo


Second Sight

Increases all friendly Champion's Critical strike chance by 3/4/5%.


Wild Cards

Twisted Fate throws three cards, dealing damage to each enemy unit they pass through.

Spell Effect
Throws three cards which deal 60 / 120 / 180 / 240 / 300 (+0.6 per ability power) magic damage to each enemy unit they pass through.

Spell Stats
Cooldown: 5 seconds
Cost: 40 / 55 / 70 / 85 / 100 Mana
Range: Global


Pick A Card

Twisted Fate chooses a magic card from his deck, and uses that for his next attack, causing bonus effects.

Spell Effect
Cast once to shuffle the deck and again to choose your card, enhancing your next attack.

Blue Attacks chill, causing 25 / 50 / 75 / 100 / 125 (+0.5 per ability power) magic damage, slowing their movement speed by 80% for 2.5 seconds and he can Pick another Card.

Red Attacks ignite the target, causing 25 / 50 / 75 / 100 / 125 (+0.5 per ability power) magic damage to nearby enemies and applies 50 / 100 / 150 / 200 / 250 (+0.5 per ability power) magic damage over 4 seconds and slowing their movement speed by 40% for 2.5 seconds.

Gold Attacks explode, causing 50 / 100 / 150 / 200 / 250 (+0.5 per ability power) magic damage in an area, slowing the movement speed of the area by 80% and blinding/silencing the target for 2.5 seconds.

Lasts up to 10 seconds, or one Red or Gold hit.

Spell Stats
Cooldown: 5 seconds
Each card takes: 0.75 seconds
Cost: 40/50/60/70/80 Mana
Range: 200


Gate

Teleports Twisted Fate to any target location, revealing the target location to enemys.

Spell Effect
Teleports Twisted Fate to target location. This takes 3 seconds to cast (cast again to cancel the teleport).

Spell Stats
Cooldown: 90/75/60/45/30 seconds
Cost: 80 / 70 / 60 / 50 / 40 Mana
Range: Global


Destiny

Twisted Fate predicts the fortunes of his foes, revealing all enemy champions in a large area and slowing their movement speeds for a short duration.

Spell Effect
Reveals all enemy champions in a large area (including stealthed champions) and slows their movement speed by 45% for 4/5/6 seconds. Destiny also causes Gate to teleport twice as fast and invisibly to enemys while Destiny is up.

Spell Stats
Cooldown: 130/110/90 seconds
Cost: 150 Mana
Range: Global


That's pretty much what I would do, it gives every card in PaC a use, makes him easier for newer players whilst still leaving a skill element for high ELO.

Gate is less useful sure but at least he keeps his unique style, destiny becomes less game breaking and now allows TF to be less predictable eg: Destiny an area then gate elsewhere... (The slow also acts as a warning to the enemy that he is able to gate invisibly)

Wild cards stay the same because there is nothing really wrong with them.

DISCLAIMER: The numbers are lifted from LC so I don't know how up to date the cool downs are (can't look in-game atm).


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Motas

Senior Member

01-17-2010

I've been expecting a rework for a while now, and I'm glad that it should be coming soon.

I totally agree with Doctor Awesome

this is a rework I always explain to fix PaC, and a slight fix on Gate:

Pick A Card - Twisted Fate chooses a magic card from his deck, and uses that for his next attack, causing bonus effects.
Cast once to randomly draw a card from the deck and again to change yourcard, enhancing your next attack. Pay the same mana cost again to draw a different card.

Each card has a 33% chance of being drawn


Blue Card gives 40/50/60/70/80 bonus magic damage and the effect lasts up to 2/3/4/5/6 attacks afterwards and allows Twisted Fate to Pick another Card.

Red Card deals 25/50/75/100/125 (+0.4) magic damage to nearby enemies and slows them for 2.5 seconds.

Gold Card deals 50/100/150/200/250 (+0.4) magic damage.

Lasts until the card is thrown, or until Gate is cast

Cooldown5 secondsCost40/50/60/70/80 ManaRange 200 33+33+33=99
100-99=1

1% for a black card;

Draws a cursed black card. It deals 50/100/150/200/250 magic damage and stuns for 2.5 seconds, additionally it silences for 3 seconds afterwards.

I just like the thought of the cards truly being random, and paying the mana cost again to get different card, that way n00b players will run out of mana to get the card they want, while advanced players will adapt to the situation depending on the card.


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Rokkitz

Junior Member

01-17-2010

There is a disadvantage with Pick a Card if your ping is not in the good under 100's, it relies on pure reflex, or just anticipating the gold card to pop after the red. I get about 200+ ping every game, which makes it almost impossible to catch the gold card by actually seeing it! I have to wait for the red card, do a mental count, then press it while its still red, and after a split second the gold card will appear and my keystroke will register then, granting me a nice stun.

I don't actually know whether my ping is the actual reason for this delay of keystroke registering and card stopping, but that's how it "feels" anyway. Anyone else here who gets green pings that can compare there experience with this? Do you actually press the key upon seeing the gold card or by pressing just before you think its going to appear?


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Charmicarmicarmicat

Senior Member

01-17-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Motas View Post
I've been expecting a rework for a while now, and I'm glad that it should be coming soon.

I totally agree with Doctor Awesome

this is a rework I always explain to fix PaC, and a slight fix on Gate:

Pick A Card - Twisted Fate chooses a magic card from his deck, and uses that for his next attack, causing bonus effects.
Cast once to randomly draw a card from the deck and again to change yourcard, enhancing your next attack. Pay the same mana cost again to draw a different card.

Each card has a 33% chance of being drawn


Blue Card gives 40/50/60/70/80 bonus magic damage and the effect lasts up to 2/3/4/5/6 attacks afterwards and allows Twisted Fate to Pick another Card.

Red Card deals 25/50/75/100/125 (+0.4) magic damage to nearby enemies and slows them for 2.5 seconds.

Gold Card deals 50/100/150/200/250 (+0.4) magic damage.

Lasts until the card is thrown, or until Gate is cast

Cooldown5 secondsCost40/50/60/70/80 ManaRange 200 33+33+33=99
100-99=1

1% for a black card;

Draws a cursed black card. It deals 50/100/150/200/250 magic damage and stuns for 2.5 seconds, additionally it silences for 3 seconds afterwards.

I just like the thought of the cards truly being random, and paying the mana cost again to get different card, that way n00b players will run out of mana to get the card they want, while advanced players will adapt to the situation depending on the card.
No sorry. Even though he is based around themes like gambling, big luck factors cannot play such an important role.

Skill and consistency please, not luck.


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WhitemageofDOOM

Senior Member

01-17-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorano View Post
Gold Cards are actually a required skill to be effective with TF, especially during team fights. I don't think another a character as such an abrupt learning curve. There's a notable difference with players that can or cannot lock Gold Cards when playing Twisted Fate. Wild Card is an aoe that you can actually avoid.
Gold card requires no skill, There is only ever one correct choice and that is gold card.
Hard to learn != skill.

----------------------------------------

Any rework of Cardmaster should keep gate. Because that is his most intresting and deep ability, but it should be moved to his ultamite. I mean honestly, it's the skill that defines him.

Wild card needs a rework but the basic idea of "Pick a card and get an attack buff." is a good one.

Destiny should just go, it's just wrong when combined with gate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charmicarmicarmicat View Post
No sorry. Even though he is based around themes like gambling, big luck factors cannot play such an important role.

Skill and consistency please, not luck.
Adaption is a key aspect of skill, there can be no adaption without luck/unknown variables.(Hint your opponent is an unknown variable and thus luck.)

Pick a card shouldn't have random I win buttons that come up at random obviously, but a set of balanced cards that come up at random would add additional depth to the charecter.
Knowing when to keep the card you've been dealt and knowing when to swap for another card would definitely take skill.


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VMan7

Member

01-17-2010

Cardmaster is fine and a pretty fun hero to play.

Fix characters like Warwick first please.


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MrFreddy

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

01-17-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rokkitz View Post
There is a disadvantage with Pick a Card if your ping is not in the good under 100's, it relies on pure reflex, or just anticipating the gold card to pop after the red. I get about 200+ ping every game, which makes it almost impossible to catch the gold card by actually seeing it! I have to wait for the red card, do a mental count, then press it while its still red, and after a split second the gold card will appear and my keystroke will register then, granting me a nice stun.

I don't actually know whether my ping is the actual reason for this delay of keystroke registering and card stopping, but that's how it "feels" anyway. Anyone else here who gets green pings that can compare there experience with this? Do you actually press the key upon seeing the gold card or by pressing just before you think its going to appear?
Yes, you have to click before the gold comes up to get one. My ping is ~30, so you can't get much better than that. With a little knowledge and practice, it's easy to figure out how to get it.


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karode

Member

01-17-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Motas View Post
I've been expecting a rework for a while now, and I'm glad that it should be coming soon.

I totally agree with Doctor Awesome

this is a rework I always explain to fix PaC, and a slight fix on Gate:

Pick A Card - Twisted Fate chooses a magic card from his deck, and uses that for his next attack, causing bonus effects.
Cast once to randomly draw a card from the deck and again to change yourcard, enhancing your next attack. Pay the same mana cost again to draw a different card.

Each card has a 33% chance of being drawn


Blue Card gives 40/50/60/70/80 bonus magic damage and the effect lasts up to 2/3/4/5/6 attacks afterwards and allows Twisted Fate to Pick another Card.

Red Card deals 25/50/75/100/125 (+0.4) magic damage to nearby enemies and slows them for 2.5 seconds.

Gold Card deals 50/100/150/200/250 (+0.4) magic damage.

Lasts until the card is thrown, or until Gate is cast

Cooldown5 secondsCost40/50/60/70/80 ManaRange 200 33+33+33=99
100-99=1

1% for a black card;

Draws a cursed black card. It deals 50/100/150/200/250 magic damage and stuns for 2.5 seconds, additionally it silences for 3 seconds afterwards.

I just like the thought of the cards truly being random, and paying the mana cost again to get different card, that way n00b players will run out of mana to get the card they want, while advanced players will adapt to the situation depending on the card.
GC is the only thing that will save TF from getting raped, and taking away his main contribution to team fights. You're pretty much proposing to make him useful 1% of the time, and a free kill all the time. It's quite obvious that you don't play TF, and are probably just mad that you get Destiny/Gate killed all the time due to being alone at low hp.

You can't build a champion on complete luck, at least with PaC you have to have some skill in order to pick a GC.


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Motas

Senior Member

01-17-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by karode View Post
GC is the only thing that will save TF from getting raped, and taking away his main contribution to team fights. You're pretty much proposing to make him useful 1% of the time, and a free kill all the time. It's quite obvious that you don't play TF, and are probably just mad that you get Destiny/Gate killed all the time due to being alone at low hp.

You can't build a champion on complete luck, at least with PaC you have to have some skill in order to pick a GC.
Hmm, funny, I almost ONLY play TF
for the record, I NEVER get killed alone by TF
My way was a combination of luck and skill (noted above)

But whatever floats your boat