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How to carry a feeding team

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PhosphorousGases

Junior Member

08-14-2014

So im stuck in Bronze 2. Anyone got any pointers? I know people are going to think this is a "the OP is blaming everyone else for his mistakes thread" But this simply isnt the case. While it is similar, I am complaining about people feeding every lane, I recognize my mistakes aswell. I main jungle udyr/lee sin right now and normally end up doing well with them (normally something like 10/6/11) but my teams always seem to overextend and get caught at 40 minutes and we end up losing. Im tired of getting teams like this and it happens so often that im forced to stop relying on my team for anything. Thats why I started playing Udyr and watching Trick2G, what he does when he plays udyr, what he builds first, learning how to farm the jungle effectively ( I normally get 200 farm by 30 minutes and a feral at around 15 ), and how to "Open the Gates" as he puts it, but my teams just refuse to cooperate even when I tell them im going to split push, they always try to fight and throw the game. Am I doing something wrong that I dont notice? Even when they get caught I dont bother trying to go help because its already a lost cause so I try to push a tower down to make up for it, but by the time im about to take a tower the enemy team is taking an inhibitor. Sorry for the wall of text, but im just really tired of losing games because of things like this. Any pointers will help greatly ( including suggesting champions to carry with / alternate strategies etc. )

P.S. This has also driven me to a point of hopelessness as I refuse to play ranked until I learn to carry a team, so i'd like help A.S.A.P


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PhosphorousGases

Junior Member

08-14-2014

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PhosphorousGases

Junior Member

08-14-2014

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sbsp13668

Junior Member

08-14-2014

I said this for another thread, and it applies a bit here: A lot of people think it's about being able to carry enough bads in order to climb. However, preventing the bads from being their worst/feeding uncontrollably works just as well for climbing. So, you can play some Soraka and Janna who are great at getting teammates to die less/survive more (hard CC jungles are good at this too).

My friend plays Udyr the way that I play my hard CC junglers. He peels a lot for his carries with that spammable bear stun. He gets carries fed early, often ganking at level 2 with red buff, then peels for them in fights. I know that's not Trick2G's style, but I find that Trick's style is used a lot in lower/average elos, making it predictable, and aside from splitpushing, it doesn't carry well (for example, in low elos camping a lane the way that Trick does can throw a game because the person you camped for plays on a toaster and dc'd around mid-game). Splitting can work, you just need to recognize the optimal situation for it. If your teammates aren't cooperating for your splitpush, then adapt to them and participate in teamfights because Udyr can work in teamfights too.

EDIT: The other really important thing that I forgot to mention pre-edit is that if you want to prevent your teammates from getting caught (and more successfully counterjungle on Trick's Udyr), you gotta buy a lot of wards. Always place one pink on the map in a good spot, where it won't get cleared right away by the enemy team. And, buy greens throughout the game if you find your team is getting caught a lot, losing objectives, and/or you're doing lots of counterjungling.


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PhosphorousGases

Junior Member

08-14-2014

I just did that, I had a team that was doing great in the early game, but when it came to teamfighting, was god awful, we had a good teamfight in bot that was a 4v5 and we traded my life for 4 of theirs and a bot tower, but apparently my initiations weren't good enough at all any other times ( easy aces being ignored because people dont understand that we had a stronger teamfight and were all fed ), So I told them to just play safe and let me splitpush, it worked for awhile until they all died in the middle of mid lane and ended in the enemy pushing mid and ending the game. I warded everywhere I went when I was pushing, and got 3 or 4 towers by split pushing, people just dont want to listen when you ask them to play safe and not get caught, or so it seems.


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MiLdLYirriTaTed

Senior Member

08-14-2014

Udyr's greatest strength is counter-jungling like a mad man (beast?), with the objective of shutting down enemy jungler's farm, warding his entire jungle and outleveling him (and killing him if you catch him). This turns the game into a 4v5 essentially. Also, it doesn't sound like you are ganking mid or bot often, lot easier to win games with a fed adc/apc then having to beast mode everything yourself.

EDIT: Just read your reply about ganking and getting teammates fed. It sounds like you're doing everything right and have good habits maybe that was just an unfortunate game. Maybe keep doing the same thing and have the law of averages play out?


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PhosphorousGases

Junior Member

08-14-2014

Quote:
MiLdLYirriTaTed:
Udyr's greatest strength is counter-jungling like a mad man (beast?), with the objective of shutting down enemy jungler's farm, warding his entire jungle and outleveling him (and killing him if you catch him). This turns the game into a 4v5 essentially. Also, it doesn't sound like you are ganking mid or bot often, lot easier to win games with a fed adc/apc then having to beast mode everything yourself.


I try to gank a lane any time I see an easy kill / objective, When I play Udyr I dont finish Swiftness boots until AFTER I have Wriggles and spirit stone, so I have no way of properly chasing someone down a lane to stun them until then, so I farm my heart out unless such opportunity arises, I'm not comfortable counter-jungling as of yet, i'm still not completely sure when udyr is strong in the early game (I max phoenix and tiger first and have 27% passive attack speed boost from runes) I openly admit that there are still things I need to learn about some aspects of the game.


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MiLdLYirriTaTed

Senior Member

08-14-2014

I'm not an Udyr expert but I'm pretty sure that's not how you level udyr's skills, and unless I'm very mistaken that's not what Trick2g does either. He goes either Phoenix OR tiger, whichever he maxes first he maxes the other last. To my understanding, phoenix udyr is the more popular variant, maxing phoenix -> turtle -> bear -> tiger.

Udyr is extremely strong at level 3, fairly strong at level 2 as well. Watch Trick he explains it well, you engage with your W active and then E to charge and stun, then alternate between R and W with auto attacks in between, or just alternate R's if the enemy isn't fighting back and just trying to run away. (R, auto, auto, W, auto, auto, or if enemy running away, R auto auto, R auto auto, E as needed to chase). With spammable shield and passive attack speed boost, udyr is one of the best duelists in the game. Possibly THE best duelist.

EDIT: I just looked up the most recent trick2g udyr guides, he goes Phoenix tiger turtle bear max phoenix max BEAR (not turtle) max turtle and finally tiger. Also in a 1v1 he starts with turtle and switches to tiger then stays in phoenix, uses E as needed.


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MiLdLYirriTaTed

Senior Member

08-14-2014

Of another note, you aren't using Udyr's mobility to full effect, he is the speed king. I think you should get tier 1 boots fairly early, on your first back with madred's razors.

Counter jungling is a lot like learning to swim or riding a bike, just dive in and figure it out as you go along. General concept, find the jungler and go where he isn't, and to do that you need heavy ward coverage in his jungle. Counter jungling is not effective with a slow udyr!


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sbsp13668

Junior Member

08-14-2014

I'm just going from your lolking, and your last match was against an amazing teamfight team.
Focusing on your last game I'd say:

1. The enemy team picked a really good team comp, whereas yours isn't so much (I mean wtf is that Cho support?). Your pick of Udyr was good because you have splitpush potential against that scary teamfight comp, but the Cho and Diana picks are pretty weak. So, perhaps learning more roles/champions could benefit you. For example, if you picked Lulu and Cho went jungle or top, you would've stood a much better chance in teamfights. However, the other thing you can do is try to negotiate with your teammates to make a better comp or at least communicate a strategy to counter the enemy's comp (like splitpushing) in the pre-game chat. If any of your teammates insist on playing that particular champion despite them not fitting into a comp well, it's probably for the best to let them do what they want because they may just be really good on those champions; this leads me to my next point...

2. You may be a bit on tilt, causing you to be excessively distrustful of your teammates. (I can't really tell because all I see is your match history). I listen to music and joke with my teammates to reduce my tilt and develop small bonds with my teammates.

3. Your farm on Udyr is amazing. I've only seen one guy in gold/silver on jungle with farm like that, and it's another friend of mine who plays a lot of Yi jungle. Farm like that suggests you didn't gank much early, which is fine. What my friend does on Yi is basically AFK farms his own jungle for the first 15-20 minutes. Then, he comes into teamfights with Feral Flare and puts out craploads of damage. To do that, though, you need really good positioning and initiation, and I suspect that these are areas that you need to work on. Also, it may be pretty difficult to do at that elo because your team may not figure out that they need to play a bit careful, since you won't be ganking.
Counterjungling may be a better option to ganking in this case, and if you wanna work on your counterjungling, maybe do it in some normals (team-builder? get icon worth) first. Tiger level 1 is best on Udyr for counterjungle because you can duel the enemy jungle really easy. It sounds like you got good runes and leveling for counterjungling, so you just gotta practice it a bit (and don't forget to ward lots!).

Your last game looked like a really tough game, especially if you're working on your play style; don't let it get you down. Good luck, and keep up the awesome farm!


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