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RIOT PLEASE CONSIDER: Adjusting AD Kog'Maw While Maintaining Diversity

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astralwit

Member

08-02-2014

4.13 changes are a moderate nerf to Kog'Maw because assassins are made more viable and Kog's power scales slower. Reducing Q's power early game makes Kog'Maw more vulnerable to dives from bruisers too until ~40 min when he's level 18. I think these changes are enough to curb his power bot lane because of his clear weaknesses in terms of cooldowns, mana gating, waveclear and mobility. Seeing other ADCs like Graves or Sivir get buffs should also help. Sivir's ultimate can let the bruisers get to Kog and Graves can burst quite hard.

However, if they are somehow not enough, reducing R's damage vs champions isn't an elegant way of balancing him. Gutting R's damage by 50% at level 6 hurts AD Kog a lot but it also kills AP Kog. While it's true that it eventually reaches the same level, games rarely reach such late stages without one team being decisively ahead. AP Kog would be too vulnerable in laning and contribute too little to Dragon/Baron fights to be viable at any tier. Considering he doesn't have hard CC or mobility, he really needs damage to be competitive mid-lane.

Both Kog styles have fans and are rewarding to play but only AD Kog is problematic. I believe that just like AP Ezreal and AP MF are preserved, he should be too. As far as AP Kog fans are concerned, these changes delete their favorite champion. (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=48973588#post48973588) I don't see a reason why this should happen when both playstyles can coexist peacefully.

Current PBE nerfs:

Base Movement Speed is now 325 (down from 330)
Living Artillery [ R ] - Bonus base damage to champion is now 75/100/125% (down from 125% at all ranks)

Here are some alternative solutions:

1. The main change that allowed Kog's laning phase to be somewhat decent is W having no mana cost. This let him effectively be a Caitlyn every 17 sec with no consequence after a few levels in W. Apart from the item changes, this made him viable as a laner.

The way to bring him back in line if 4.13 truly isn't enough is simply by adding mana cost to W back in. It can have a fairly high cost early, let's say 65, and then eventually no mana cost when maxed. This would really gimp Kog's laning without killing AP Kog in the process or destroying his identity as a late game artillery beast.

2. If the PBE changes are maintained, Q can be brought back to a 70% AP ratio and/or R can get another 5% or so.

3. Keep the scaling damage to champions but make it more rewarding at level 16. Perhaps it can be brought back to 150% or whatever seems reasonable.

BTW: I think AP Kog's underestimated and it's sad to see that he has essentially been absent from competitive play since Froggen played him back in Season 2. He got nerfed very hard but he still fulfills a niche. He can do well when facing teams with few gap closers or assassins. As long as his team has high tankiness and good lockdown to make up for his lack of hard CC, Kog can dish out a lot of poke.


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JlZZ ON MY FACE

Member

08-02-2014

Giving W a mana cost would **** AP Kog pretty hard.


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Urgot my Waifu

Senior Member

08-02-2014

Diversity?

This is LoL we're talking about right?


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Aefre

Senior Member

08-02-2014

disliked because elo not high enough for balance post.


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Freakooo

Senior Member

08-02-2014

Give W 65 mana cost

Not sure if bad post or troll post


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astralwit

Member

08-02-2014

Criticize my ideas and not my ELO. Doing otherwise is just not logical or fair. Besides, I don't play on this account and my main was G4 this season. I'm not claiming that's amazing but I do have a lot of games as Kog.

I get it, 65 is a lot of mana and yes it would hurt AP Kog as well. Obviously it doesn't have to be that exact number. It could be 50 like before. The idea would just be that it would have a mana cost and then decrease to zero at max rank. This cuts down his harass just like gutting R would. It just has to be tweaked and I think it's much better than making his R less rewarding and killing AP Kog in the process too.


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LaughingStapler

Member

08-04-2014

I actually don't think the PBE changes will go through. His winrate already went down a few percent.

All of those ideas can work but I prefer the first because they've tested a variation of it before.


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icantriforce

Recruiter

08-04-2014

Riot hates kog maw. Been playing since season 2 and he gets nerfed every time he becomes fotm. For a lot of early season 3 and late 2 he wasnt viable because of champs like graves and mf. Kog sees a power spike every time these champs fall out of meta. Plus kog was always best when you can build a protect the kog comp, and with these top lane maokai's and lulus and gragas he gets really good peel in teamfiights. Oh yeah and with Braum's release he is now even safer in lane.

All in all it is frustrating that my two adc's always get one patch in the sun (the other adc being corki) before riot sends them back to up tier. Oh and for those of you dreaming about the return of ap kog froggen has permanently scarred the minds of the riot balance team and made any buffs to his ap kit impossible. For newer players I highly recommend watching froggen's kog on youtube.


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Gespens

Senior Member

08-04-2014

Quote:
icantriforce:
Riot hates kog maw. Been playing since season 2 and he gets nerfed every time he becomes fotm. For a lot of early season 3 and late 2 he wasnt viable because of champs like graves and mf.

Kog wasn't played in S2 because Ez/Corki/Graves were a thing. That and heavy gank junglers. He got nerfed 3 patches in a row and received 0 compensation for them (W range, ult damage, ult mana). It was never MF that kept him out of botlane in S2-- even Caitlyn was less viabe than he was for a majority of the season.


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LaughingStapler

Member

08-04-2014

The PBE changes for R are now setting the bonus damage at 100% for all ranks. This probably increases the viability of AP Kog compared to 75/100/125 but his late game will be weaker and that was the reward for suffering through the rest of the game. I prefer him being less viable but stronger late.


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