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Sona Opinions Thread

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Malah

Senior Member

07-31-2014

Her Q tuning is silly, assuming you can spread it. It's ridiculous when your spammable primary ability does far more damage than your ultimate. The only thing saving her is the anemic tuning on W, because it's probably going to hit 1/3 HP tank half-way across the screen instead of the back-line carry three feet away being violated by Talon.

I have issues with how awful the Staccato (Q) chord is, and her base stats are still the worst in the game. I'd rather she not die to a stray breeze and potentially boost her ultimate damage instead of having gonzo Q damage (nobody's going to care about derp E scaling because nobody adequately appreciates MS, move along, nothing to see here).

Quote:
ZallKlos:
Runaan was considered worse item in the game until Kayle abused it.

And it's still utter trash other than one cheese champion figuring out how to use a cheese build.

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Hurricane CST:
She enjoys the AP, CDR, and movement speed it grants

And Twin Shadows provides all of these with an active effect which completely surpasses Censer's passive.

Quote:
Hurricane CST:
and she's as good as Alistar at using its passive now

And as with Alistar, unless you have high censer uptime on someone who can actually use that AS then it's pointless. Yay, Leona and Morgana have an AS boost! Dem tank and mage autos!


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Allea

Senior Member

07-31-2014

I still don't understand why people hate on Ardent Censer, I mean I guess on dominion it may not be as good (considering you won't always have a Marksman unlike in SR)...as for a new Sona, her aura range is a bit too short but maybe like what someone suggested on GD, have it scale up as you level up her ultimate.

Otherwise...I think she's fine for the most part, I don't think her celerity skill (E) needs a buff, it's really strong as it is...(selfishly of course!).


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SylianEUW

Senior Member

07-31-2014

I wonder why people are saying Ardent Censer is a bad item? It's 102.9% cost efficient before you take the passive into account, and the stats it gives are all relevant for support champions.

Twin Shadows is actually slightly less cost efficient than Ardent Censer. With that being said, it's one of the best items in the game and I'd get it every time I play a support, pretty much. Why not get both Twin Shadows and Ardent Censer?

As for the new Sona, I think she's really strong. My passive Q gave out a 211 nuke to everyone late game. If I could get 3 people to proc it, that's 633 damage, not including the initial Q damage... That's pretty big. Her heals and shields are really good too, and her ultimate is just as useful as ever. My initial placement is: High tier 2. I'd like to see her combined with Caitlyn, with one Q and Caitlyn autoattack the poke could be pretty scary.

Her early game is kind of meh though, and she's still vulnerable to burst.


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Romantic Metro

Senior Member

07-31-2014

I think that comes down to the effect of what these items do for you. Ardent Censer can be cost efficient but it doesn't have as much worth in a game where there's no real AAer. While Twin Shadows is applicable in the majority of situations. I would also say it's because it's a newer item and people don't like to much of a change up of their build. Lastly I think it's cause building both those items in a single game leaves you rather squishy. 4600 gold for those two items alone leaves you with 20%cdr, 120AP, 14% MS, +10 mana regen and their active/passives. It can be cost efficient but you don't have a whole lot of other stats to help back you up.


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SylianEUW

Senior Member

07-31-2014

@Romantic Metro: Yeah, Ardent Censer is bad if you don't actually have champions that benefit from it, that much should be obvious. But if you have 2 champions who can benefit from it, it's a pretty cool item. It's also a very fun item, which might not affect viability but does make it more nice to buy.

And yes, it might leave you squishy. I suggest that the third item will be something to make you bulkier. If you're Janna, get Locket. If you're Sona, get Seraph's (maybe, needs more testing). If you're Nami... Well, I'm not sure if Ardent Censer is really worth it on Nami. If you're Lulu... I'm guessing Locket, but Lulu is kind of meh right now, and she's a weaker Ardent user than Janna/Sona/Alistar.

On Alistar, you shouldn't have to worry too much about being squishy. You're Alistar.

So it's mostly an item than Sona/Janna/Alistar can use. I'm going to try it on Karma some time and see if it's worth it on her. She does have an AoE shield, so that's something, at least.


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Sakuri Ono

Senior Member

07-31-2014

Quote:
SylianEUW:

Twin Shadows is actually slightly less cost efficient than Ardent Censer. With that being said, it's one of the best items in the game and I'd get it every time I play a support, pretty much. Why not get both Twin Shadows and Ardent Censer?


-Practicality > Theoretical Cost Efficiency. Vision on up to two targets + a slow every minute provides far more game changing power in the Crystal Scar than a mere 25% AS during a teamfight. For comparison, Kog'Maw gets +30% AS at max Q level and in most games that really only translates to about .3-4-ish AS. Factoring in the CD of Sona's heal that means you might be lucky to proc it twice during a team fight IF your heal even hits your optimal target.

Which in order for it to do so your ADC needs to be the lowest % HP member on your team...twice.

If your AA reliant unit has the most % damage of the group then their position is so out of alignment that they're going to die before AC has a chance to be useful. Odds are more likely you're constantly feeding that AS to the tank or the mage; where it generally goes to waste as a dead active.

-You don't build TS and AC for the same reason Hyper Sonic Sona is dead. The Crystal Scar required you to pretty much be relevant in either damage or survivability by the time the second round of Windmill skirmish ends. Otherwise the team that HAS optimized for those is just going to steamroll your team in the jungle. TS+AC does not provide anything Sona needs to stay around long enough to be useful. The MS is nice but as much as I'd love it to be true otherwise an MS reliant build isn't good for anything but POOTing.

TC+AS nets you zero AR, zero MR, zero Pen, zero HP, barely any Mana Regen.

Sona needs those otherwise she's just going to pop. Especially with this new update considering the range she needs to be in for her auras to tag people. For that 110AP to even be useful by the time you finish TS/AC you'll need to immediately roll into Void Staff. At which point you're late game (for Dominion) with still zero defensive stats on one of the weakest (defensively) units in the game.

Trying to Mastery around it won't help you either. Go Defensive heavy with a TS/AC build and you have no damage while still having a low HP vulnerability with middle ground defenses (fine for SR, not so much here). Go Offensive heavy with a TS/AC build and your damage is still 'meh' (MR blues and Merc Treads are still a thing) while you pop like a balloon.

______________________

Ardent Censer isn't a bad item. But it's not a CS Sona item. It works in a duo-lane where you can control where your heal goes. Not in a skirmish environment where the Marksmen should be the last one taking damage.


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SylianEUW

Senior Member

07-31-2014

Quote:
Sakuri Ono:
-Practicality > Theoretical Cost Efficiency. Vision on up to two targets + a slow every minute provides far more game changing power in the Crystal Scar than a mere 25% AS during a teamfight.
Quite likely, yes. However, you're assuming that it'll be a 25% AS buff. Remember that her W also provides an AoE shield, that also procs Ardent Censer. If this buff turns into a 50% AS buff (1500 gold value), then Ardent Censer suddenly became much more appealing. If you have two champions on your team that benefit from attack speed, then Ardent Censer becomes very attractive. And basides, the attack speed will help mages proc your Q aura proc.

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Factoring in the CD of Sona's heal that means you might be lucky to proc it twice during a team fight IF your heal even hits your optimal target.
Even if the heal doesn't, the shield might, and Sona should get CDR anyway, so the CD won't be too long, 6 seconds with max CDR, 6 second duration.

Quote:
-You don't build TS and AC for the same reason Hyper Sonic Sona is dead. The Crystal Scar required you to pretty much be relevant in either damage or survivability by the time the second round of Windmill skirmish ends. Otherwise the team that HAS optimized for those is just going to steamroll your team in the jungle. TS+AC does not provide anything Sona needs to stay around long enough to be useful.
I never said that you should rush both Twin Shadows and Ardent Censer. For one thing, it'd leave her very mana hungry. I'm inclined to be in favor of Archangel's Staff on Sona, although I need to test it more.

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barely any Mana Regen.
Just as much Mana Regen as Morellonomicon.

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For that 110AP to even be useful by the time you finish TS/AC you'll need to immediately roll into Void Staff.
Void Staff is not really worth it on Sona. You're better off getting more AP, since her AP ratios are so good now. Her Q gives a really nice boost to her allies next attack, and her W gives a heal and an AoE shield. I suspect Lich Bane would be a better alternative to Void Staff if you want damage, although I haven't done the math.

Quote:
Trying to Mastery around it won't help you either. Go Defensive heavy with a TS/AC build and you have no damage while still having a low HP vulnerability with middle ground defenses (fine for SR, not so much here).
The thing with the new Sona is that she's very much a support. Try to do things on your own an you will struggle, hang around your team and buff them and you will succeed. The Q aura adds a lot of damage that's semi-hidden, but it does add a lot of burst. At level 16, with 0 AP, your Q will do 200 magic damage, and then each ally will have 110 bonus damage for their next attack. If you and two ally proc this, that's 330 bonus damage plus the base 200 damage. This is from a 0 AP Sona. If she has 300 AP, then it's 185 per ally, 555 bonus damage plus base 350. Yeah... Sona might not do incredible damage on her own, but utilize her in a team and she'll be scary.

Quote:
Ardent Censer isn't a bad item. But it's not a CS Sona item. It works in a duo-lane where you can control where your heal goes. Not in a skirmish environment where the Marksmen should be the last one taking damage.
It seems like you're not taking the AoE shield into account. Chances are you'll be standing close to your marksman, so they will receive the buff quite often, even if they're at full health.


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Sakuri Ono

Senior Member

07-31-2014

Admittedly I forgot entirely about the shield. Still not 100% memorized on the update. XP


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Fancy Wolf

Senior Member

07-31-2014

Quote:
SylianEUW:
Remember that her W also provides an AoE shield, that also procs Ardent Censer.


Is this confirmed and tested? Im pretty sure the way the ardent censer buff is coded that it will only refresh or apply 1 stack of the 25%.


And if youre talking about multiple targets then that goes right back to the item wasting stats on someone who doesnt need it.


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AlphaFerric

Senior Member

07-31-2014

Quote:
Fancy Wolf:

And if youre talking about multiple targets then that goes right back to the item wasting stats on someone who doesnt need it.

If you're not auto'ing you're doing it wrong.

Its not supposed to be a core item anyways. Just build it if it makes sense for your comp.


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