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Team Builder Update

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Dogreen5555

Junior Member

07-30-2014

I noticed that times for teambuilder were quite long but now they seem to be relatively ok.


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Longers2

Junior Member

07-30-2014

Quote:
Lyte:
Are you still interested in a Team Builder take on Ranked Modes (perhaps, without selecting a Champion)?


Yes. This is ultimately what I'm hoping for Team Builder to become. In the beginning, I know you guys talked about Team Builder promoting champion synergy, but having to lock in champions before even seeing what your team will be is completely ruining that aspect. Let us choose what roles and lanes we want, and then we can communicate who we would each like to play before matchmaking begins. Yes, this would negate the matchmaking part that takes into account our previous games with that champion, but I don't think that really matters. Letting us pick our champions after being matched together will definitely make this style of queue viable for ranked.


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Ser Josh

Junior Member

07-30-2014

Give players a "Mastery Level" for each role they play in team builder (Similar to God mastery level in Smite). For example, if I choose to support, then team builder will automatically select the 'Support Summoner Icon' that will display for all to see in loading screen. Based on how well (or how much) I play support, a number indicating my "Role Mastery Level" will be displayed on my icon. Also another cool thing is that the icon gets a visual upgrade (similar to how divisions upgrade when you get promoted in ranked). If not possible to use the summoner icon for that purpose then create another icon that displays in the loading screen.


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AcrobaticApricot

Senior Member

07-30-2014

I'm really excited to try this out. Right after team builder was released I tried it, queued for mid (my main role) and had queue times often upwards of an hour. I think I might have gotten to play one team builder game solo out of 5 or so times trying and giving up.

I really love the idea of Team Builder because I hate fighting over roles in champion select but so far it's been unplayable for me, and I hope this fixes that.


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Adaptio

Recruiter

07-30-2014

I think it would be great if you guys made team builder available for levels lower than 25.


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DevilTriggerJAY

Junior Member

07-30-2014

Quote:
Lyte:
<div class="legacy-vbulletin"> <div class="article-body"> <p>Hey everyone,</p><p>It's been a few months since Team Builder's Beta launch, and I'd love to spend some time with you to talk about the system.&nbsp; There's a lot to cover, so the TL;DR for those of you who want to get back on the Rift: We've added a slew of new features to Team Builder that improved queue times, match quality and building a team itself. There's also something I think is pretty awesome that I won't spoil up here. You'll have to read until the end for that one.</p><p>When we launched the Team Builder Beta, we knew that there'd be a few hiccups; however, we were also at a point where we'd been in development for a while and were eager for player feedback so you could build Team Builder with us.</p><p>Let's back up a bit to an earlier part of the story: When we were designing the system, we decided on a goal of "six minutes or less." From when a player hits "Play" and decides to start or join a team in Team Builder, we wanted them to be at the loading screen in six minutes or less. We chose this goal because when we analyzed Normal Blind Pick and Ranked Queues, queue times were only a few minutes or less depending on the server, but it took at least another minute and a half to play through the Champion Select or Drafting phases. So in Normal Blind Pick or Ranked, it already took three to five minutes to get to the loading screen and we assumed a few extra minutes wouldn't feel too slow. We were wrong.</p><p>Fast forward to the initial weeks of Team Builder Beta: there were a few issues with queue times and match quality. First, matchmaking in Team Builder wasn't taking into account Summoner Levels, so we had quite a few matches where Level 20-29s were thrown into matches with Level 30s. Second, although the average (and median) queue times were five and six minutes, players that were high or low MMR had pretty severe issues trying to start or find a team in Team Builder. Sometimes, it would take these players upwards of 20+&nbsp;minutes just to find a match. Some players might think high MMR is Challenger, but in fact, even Gold-level players were having difficulties with the system. These experiences were unacceptable by our standards, and we quickly realized in the data that the problem was the matchmaking system.</p><p>But we were also facing some pretty heavy psychological challenges, and I want to walk through what those were. Throughout the Team Builder Beta, we sent out surveys to try to quantify a player's experiences with the system. One question repeatedly came up for us: why did players rate the Team Builder experience as "slow," even when the overall time to get into a game was only one or two minutes slower than Blind Pick?</p><p>This cognitive bias is due to something we call <em>passive waiting</em> versus <em>active waiting</em>. In Blind Pick, players can often instalock and then AFK to browse a website, go to the bathroom or grab a drink. We call this <em>passive waiting</em>. However, in Team Builder, players have to <em>actively wait</em> in the lobby while the team is being formed so that they can accept or decline a player and chat with teammates. Because you are <em>actively attending</em> to Team Builder during the team building period, six minutes in Team Builder <em>seems</em> much longer than six minutes in the Blind Pick flow.</p><p>So we had a matchmaking quality issue and a psychological problem to solve, what did we do?</p><p>Well, we're still working on the <em>active waiting </em>versus <em>passive waiting </em>issue, but we're happy to say that for many players, queue times in Team Builder are now as fast as Blind Pick, and in some cases faster, because of two changes. First we implemented a feature that shows what roles are in demand by teams, allowing solo players to "fill" when they want. Then we created a completely new, custom matchmaking criteria for Team Builder that dramatically improved the queue times for high and low MMR players. Averages are now three and four minutes, and even players above 1800 MMR have queue times in Team Builder around five minutes.</p><p>Along with the queue time matchmaking improvements, we fixed the Team Builder matchmaker to accurately account for Summoner Level and we've tweaked a number of dials to improve match quality--meaning more balanced teams and appropriate challenges for both sides.</p><p>We've been experimenting with other features in Team Builder for a while now, and we've added one of them that we think will help make Team Builder even better. With "Suggested Players," you'll see a box in your Team Builder lobby filled with players we believe you'll have a positive experience with. A one-click invite adds them to your team before you start searching for solo players. We'll expand this feature over time, and could possibly go into detail on the algorithms in the future if there's enough interest.</p><p>In light of the massive changes to the Team Builder experience, we'd like to re-invite you to give Team Builder a try, and give us your latest feedback. Are you still interested in a Team Builder take on Ranked Modes (perhaps, without selecting a Champion)? What about a Team Builder Co-op Mode to make it easier to bring friends into League? What's Team Builder still missing that would make it better than the Blind Pick experience?</p><p>To celebrate the current milestone, we've added six exclusive Summoner Icons (one for each role!) that you can unlock by playing each specific role in Team Builder. You can find out more about this promotion <a href="http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/features/building-better-team-builder" target="_blank"><strong>here</strong></a>.</p><p>Join us in Team Builder, and show off your favorite role with your new icons!</p><p>Lyte</p> <style type="text/css"> .article-body .region-na, .article-body .region-br, .article-body .region-eune, .article-body .region-euw, .article-body .region-tr { display:none; } </style> </div> </div>


so........where's the tl;dr?


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solr panls

Junior Member

07-30-2014

I'm still relatively new/inexperienced to the game (I'm sitting at level 14). Is Team Builder something I can jump into, or should I just stick with playing Normal Blind Pick? This is the first I've really heard of this mode.


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Veiled Sovereign

Member

07-30-2014

Here is what I would really like to see added to team builder:

1) An ability to add friends to the game after you've already started searching for new players. Additionally, having other players already on the team to be able to invite their friends (sometimes friends become available after you started searching, and it's a pain to have to restart the queue and give up the team already assembled)

2) Change champion after gathering a team. Basically, queue as a lane rather than a champ/lane/role so you can adjust to a team comp to benefit the team if needed.

3) Ranked team builder. Also, MMR based off role in ranked as well as normal team builder. Take away the frustration of playing ranked by being able to reliably play what you want. I think this would make both teams more even because if by chance no one can sup or adc very well on a team, that bot lane is screwed and the other team is likely going to win. Not everyone's equally good at all roles (and you're measuring MMR in team builder based on role, not overall). A better measure for MMR based off role in ranked would make it more challenging and less stompy.

4) Ip gains based on role/lane. I.e. support gets more ip because less people want to do it. Incentives would even out roles so there isn't worry of having no supports.

5) People being able to swap roles after queueing (for example, if there is draft team builder, and the enemy picks a champ I am bad against in lane, I may ask to swap with a teammate). However with the different MMR based on role, this may not be possible.

5) Normal draft team builder.

6) Team builder eventually replacing normals altogether (they seem like different queues for the same thing). I may be wrong but I don't see the need for both once team builder is good enough.

P.S. thanks for summoner icons!


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Thornmaelstrom

Senior Member

07-30-2014

On Teambuilder as a stepping stone toward Long-Term Queue Health

# of Queues on NA:
PvP: 5(SR)+2(TT)+2(CS)+1(HA) = 10
CoOp: 3(SR)+2(TT)+2(CS) = 7
= 17 Queues! (I've heard smaller servers have less enabled, but this is about every server)

Even with really big base populations, that's still a pretty big # to divide by.
As League of Legends is a game destined for longevity, and while Riot has already eschewed one of the corners of the Iron Triangle (namely, giving up 'fast' for 'quality'), Riot will have to tackle long-term issues that will attempt to slowly leech life out of the game or otherwise impede room for future growth. Namely, I'm talking about queues and how pruning them will give short-term AND long-term benefits on queue speeds, player perception on queues, and leaves room open for future expansion should Riot take up new projects that would expand queues again.

(1) I don't need to mention how having less queues will make all the remaining queues faster, that's obvious.
(2) player perception anecdote: I shouldn't have to mention players prefer faster queues, but I mention this anyway because of an example: Prior to this announcement, one of my friends decided, without any measurement of course, that Teambuilder "took too long" and refused to play anything but Blind Pick when we didn't have enough to do Ranked 5's. From experience and hearsay on Reddit; TB had fast queues and perception if you simply had 2 people to do Bot; but he was only trying to queue a Sololane and got a bad impression of it.

I feel that ARAM, TT, and Featured Gamemode are the most healthily implemented.
ARAM is all 1 queue, and TT has the PERFECT division between "Normal, Solo/Team, Blindpick" and "Draft, Team, Ranked". Featured Gamemode isn't unhealthy even if you have up to +3 queues with DoomBots because it's only temporary. Even if Featured Gamemode WAS permanent (and might be!) it would still (on average) a SINGLE queue for rotating ANY number of other game modes.

Eventually, IntroBots will subsume Tutorials and perhaps Beginner Bots; in an ideal world though the CoOp queues need some SERIOUS weeding; I would remove both Dominion Bot queues, and remove one each of the SR+TT queues for a final lineup of:
-SR: Intro
-SR: Beginner
-TT: Intermediate
and organize all of these on a single tab under "Co-Op vs. AI", no reason to split up just 3 options. Also add a "Must play 1 game of Intro Bots before Beginner, and reach lvl 10 before Intermediate Bots", ala Doom Bots. This cuts down 7 queues down to 3, and lines them up in a progressive order. After a new player has reached a certain account level and beaten perhaps 1 game of Intermediate Bots, pressing the "Play" button will default them to Normals instead of CoOp.
The Crystal Scar, as wonderful and fun as it is, isn't terribly popular; and I think for the long-term health of League and especially Dominion in the long run; it should be condensed down to 1 queue. Players have been asking for Ranked Dom for awhile, but since that doesn't seem likely I think one of the future implementations of "Teambuilder Draft" (TBD from now on) will suffice. 2 queues -> 1 queue; entire Dom population is united, and enjoys faster queue times.

SR, being the main map, is certainly the most tricky. Team Ranked 5's is its own seperate thing, and can't really be touched. Ranked Solo/Duo queue can either stay Draft or be replaced with TBD; but cannot under any circumstance be split into two queues (ruins the entire "ladder" thing on principle, even before queue health issues). The burden of unity then falls upon Normal games; wherein there are currently 3 queues: TB, BlindPick, and Draft. In a perfect world, all three of these queues can be collapsed into a single TB queue; at the very least I don't think forcing the Normal Draft population to make up their minds and pick between Normal or Ranked would have any significant negative effect that wouldn't be outweighed by combining permanent queues.

Final Projected Scenario: 10 queues.
PvP
-Summoner's Rift
--Normal (Teambuilder)
--Ranked Solo/Duo (Teambuilder Draft)
--Ranked Teams (Draft Pick)
-Twisted Treeline
--Normal (Teambuilder)
--Ranked Teams (Draft Pick)
-Crystal Scar
--Normal (Teambuilder Draft)
-Howling Abyss
--Normal (All Random)

Co-Op vs. AI
-Intro Bots (Summoner's Rift; Blind Pick)
-Beginner Bots (Summoner's Rift; Blind Pick)
-Intermediate Bots (Twisted Treeline; Blind Pick)

So, Teambuilder Team, WHERE DO YOU THINK TEAMBUILDER WILL TAKE US? Do you think it's the first step in solving queue time problems everywhere?
Do you think it will help improve the new player experience? Do you think it can prevent vast scores of Ranked Rage in near-neutral players?
What do you think of TBD Bans being "pre-picked" vs. "draft-banned"?
Would "pre-picked" bans (basically limiting within that queue to all other appropriate teams without those 3 champions) work in Normal-version of TBD?
Can we shave a few seconds off Draft Picks Pick & Ban times (and probably leave Tournament Draft untouched so pro teams still have time while soloqueuers can get into game faster)?
TELL ME YOUR THOUGHTS.


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AEPE4641

Junior Member

07-30-2014

hey ugys\