Alistar: Principles for Udder Ownage

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Pigmancer

Senior Member

01-17-2010

So, i've been playing, and winning with, Alistar for a while now.. Picked him up, started with flash, learned the flash, pulverize, headbutt into your friends combo and the rest was history..

To this guide:

Quote:
Originally Posted by skyspyke View Post
5) DON'T USE HEADBUTT TO LAST HIT.
I lol'd.. To think that you'd even ATTEMPT this, except as a last resort is hilarious to me

Quote:
Originally Posted by skyspyke View Post
6) DON'T PULVERIZE A SINGLE TARGET. Use your AOE stun to do AOE - not single target damage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyspyke View Post
never waste your pulverize on one single retreating or lagging hero.
Then what is the point of having a disable and a great stun to a headbutt into your team if you don't use it? If you're in a teamfight and you can pick off just ONE that lags behind.. suddenly you're facing 5v4. His CDs aren't nearly long enough to justify "saving" this ability for "MAX CARNAGE"


Quote:
Originally Posted by skyspyke View Post
7) ITEMS. Again, guiding principles. You want to max CD.
Which, is not bad... I guess. But, what about tanking? Or supporting? If you're talking about heals late game.. don't worry.. you won't have time to cast many of those in a big team fight. And, most often you won't even have more than one round of your disables.. two if the fight drags on (or you're chasing down NMEs or saving an ally who's in danger while your team retreats.)

My usual build:

Boots, of course.. most often speed, to keep Alistar in the thick of it.

Mana Manipulator - you'll be able to lane indefinitely and any mana users you lane with will love you.
Tear - You don't run oom.. period.. Late game, you always have mana for everything you could want to do
Heart of gold - If they're not heavily magic based.
Archangels/soul shroud/or just straight up warmogs.. - depends on what you need at the time.
The game shouldn't normally last longer than this..

I've never built a sheen on alistar, nor do I know if i every will.. Sure, he casts heal every two seconds, but.. Support Alistar > damage Alistar always and forever. Sure, the sheen has some nice AP on it, but.. Alistar just isn't a viable source of DPS.... Unless he's far outleveled their team. I think the money would be better spend on a giant's belt or a heart =P

Quote:
Originally Posted by skyspyke View Post
8) SPELLS. Max Pulverize, get two ranks of Roar, and then go as needed.
This is confusing. Sort of.. levels 1,2,3 should be a combination of Pulverize, roar and headbutt.. in whatever order you like most. If you've played alistar frequently and you don't understand the power of the combo (and just having one of each, adding to your versatility) then it is beyond me to explain it (or i'm just lazy...) The only time I could say it's justified NOT to do this is if you really need heal to save your teammate or they're pushing extremely hard. I usually toggle between heals or pulv.. usually opting for heal earlier than max pulv, as it is amazingly more useful an ability early game, as opposed to late.


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Wisewind

Senior Member

01-17-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pigmancer View Post
So, i've been playing, and winning with, Alistar for a while now.. Picked him up, started with flash, learned the flash, pulverize, headbutt into your friends combo and the rest was history..

To this guide:


I lol'd.. To think that you'd even ATTEMPT this, except as a last resort is hilarious to me




Then what is the point of having a disable and a great stun to a headbutt into your team if you don't use it? If you're in a teamfight and you can pick off just ONE that lags behind.. suddenly you're facing 5v4. His CDs aren't nearly long enough to justify "saving" this ability for "MAX CARNAGE"



Which, is not bad... I guess. But, what about tanking? Or supporting? If you're talking about heals late game.. don't worry.. you won't have time to cast many of those in a big team fight. And, most often you won't even have more than one round of your disables.. two if the fight drags on (or you're chasing down NMEs or saving an ally who's in danger while your team retreats.)

My usual build:

Boots, of course.. most often speed, to keep Alistar in the thick of it.

Mana Manipulator - you'll be able to lane indefinitely and any mana users you lane with will love you.
Tear - You don't run oom.. period.. Late game, you always have mana for everything you could want to do
Heart of gold - If they're not heavily magic based.
Archangels/soul shroud/or just straight up warmogs.. - depends on what you need at the time.
The game shouldn't normally last longer than this..

I've never built a sheen on alistar, nor do I know if i every will.. Sure, he casts heal every two seconds, but.. Support Alistar > damage Alistar always and forever. Sure, the sheen has some nice AP on it, but.. Alistar just isn't a viable source of DPS.... Unless he's far outleveled their team. I think the money would be better spend on a giant's belt or a heart =P


This is confusing. Sort of.. levels 1,2,3 should be a combination of Pulverize, roar and headbutt.. in whatever order you like most. If you've played alistar frequently and you don't understand the power of the combo (and just having one of each, adding to your versatility) then it is beyond me to explain it (or i'm just lazy...) The only time I could say it's justified NOT to do this is if you really need heal to save your teammate or they're pushing extremely hard. I usually toggle between heals or pulv.. usually opting for heal earlier than max pulv, as it is amazingly more useful an ability early game, as opposed to late.
Sheen is viable on Alistar if you get it first and take clarity. Give it a shot sometime. Top Alistar players like Bait and Bulgog run sheen first in their builds and are successful with it.


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skyspyke

Member

01-17-2010

Quote:
My only problem with your build is the soul shroud. If you go 9/0/21 and have blue cool down runes then frozen heart alone will max our cool downs
I think you're right Borf. You could save yourself an item slot for something more if you already have your CDs maxed with runes and masteries and just frozen heart. I'm gonna try that out.

Quote:
Then what is the point of having a disable and a great stun to a headbutt into your team if you don't use it? If you're in a teamfight and you can pick off just ONE that lags behind.. suddenly you're facing 5v4. His CDs aren't nearly long enough to justify "saving" this ability for "MAX CARNAGE"
I don't think I was clear on what I was saying. Of course if you have the oppurtunity to headbutt a single squishy into the other four members of your team, do it. What I'm saying is that when you initiate a fight, don't waste your Pulverize on a single target. Get into the middle of everyone and pound the shiz out of them. In the first few seconds of the fight, when EVERYONE is using as much burst DPS as they can, you want to disrupt them all as much as possible (i.e., Ryze's Ult, Kat's Ult, Nunu's Ult, etc...) and using your AOE stun to stun only one person is a waste.

If you are flashing in, ULTing, and headbutting a squishy back into your other four team members, by all means, do so. Just don't waste your AOE stun in a team fight on one single person. Its still gonna be 9ish seconds before you can use it again.


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Klazzix

Senior Member

01-17-2010

Good job on the guide. +1


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Khaines

Junior Member

01-18-2010

Just came to post I solo queued as Kat and was in a team w/Skyspyke. His Alistar is awesome; the opposing team ended up surrendering early. He was clearly MvP for that game boasting the most kills and assists iirc.


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nicosharp

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

01-18-2010

I should totally unlock Alistar.




ps - Sheen 1st Alistar is the way to go at higher tier play. There are a lot of reasons for it over another build first. Baits guide is more or less right on for that level of play. I recommend maxing CD first for all other levels of play.

low-mid ELO matches item build
meki pend + 2hp pots ---> Chalice of Harmony (depending on preference, u could go soul shroud, but i usually max cooldowns without it, and prefer the spam ability with Chalice and blue clarity runes stacking.)
Boots of Speed
Glacial Stone ---> Frozen Heart if Needed
Finish Boots (mobility or mercury or swiftness)

high ELO matches item build:
Sapphire Crystal + 2HP pots ----> Sheen
Boots of Speed
Aegis of the Legion
(complete boots - I typically go Boots of Swiftness now)
Zeal
Phage
(complete triforce)
Now I typically work on cooldown. with a brutalizer and a glacial stone..
With sheen first it is possible to have all of these items by 30mins, if you have not already won.


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skyspyke

Member

01-19-2010

Thanks to Borf and Nicosharp for making me realize a few things.

Borf: I think Soul Shroud might be worth it with an arranged team. The CD Aura might be worth it if well coordinated with your teammates. Then they would have all that money/mastery/runes points to spend elsewhere.

Question: Does anyone know how walking into and out of Soul Shroud CD Aura works?

Nicosharp: Thanks for the suggestions on items. I'm going to try some of that out. I'm a believer in Sheen for sure now.


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nicosharp

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Senior Member

01-19-2010

yea, its a completely different playstyle and takes some getting used to, but I feel that it makes you a much more threatening Alistar in all situations. Late game 5man battles in my ELO dont last more than 5-10 seconds, so the cooldown reduction for Pulv+Headbutt rarely come in handy. Where CD Reduction really pays off is in failed ganks, or overpushing (when you probably shouldnt be), or farming, but Sheen first is just generally better for farming and the other two things you should avoid. Thanks and good luck, sounds like you are already pro'ing it up.


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