Welcome to the Forum Archive!

Years of conversation fill a ton of digital pages, and we've kept all of it accessible to browse or copy over. Whether you're looking for reveal articles for older champions, or the first time that Rammus rolled into an "OK" thread, or anything in between, you can find it here. When you're finished, check out the boards to join in the latest League of Legends discussions.

GO TO BOARDS


When can we nerf Fizz?

Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

ManWolfAxeBoss

QA Analyst

07-21-2014

Keep in mind, this is with the BFT CD change 60 > 90 sec.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Behold the Void

Senior Member

07-21-2014

Quote:
ManWolfAxeBoss:
Keep in mind, this is with the BFT CD change 60 > 90 sec.


I was going to say, it's a pretty hefty slap. I like it.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

SylianEUW

Senior Member

07-21-2014

It's not like he strictly needed BFT to be OP anyway. The BFT nerf and the CD nerfs will make him weaker, but I'd be very surprised if he didn't remain a tier 1 champion.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

KaWraith

Senior Member

07-21-2014

Quote:
stormfallen:
In before Fizznity tears.


Even fizzinity has admitted fizz needs to be nerfed (well, at least reworked away from his current OP status).
He saw one too many scrublords play fizz with atrociously non-optimal builds and skill orders who miraculously carried their team anyway.
It was enough to seal it for him.

Thanks for stopping in MWAB. We do appreciate all that you do, even though we always gripe about wanting more.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Redeemed In Fire

Senior Member

07-21-2014

So it happened. Fizz was found by the wrath of an uncaring god. Rest in peace fishy, we hated you while we knew you. But it is no matter; I shall soon be reforged and redeemed, ready to cut a new path of tears to victory!

(<3 you manwolf but before you go gutting a champion's play flow via cooldowns, can you consider damage nerfs first? )


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

HaIfhearted

Senior Member

07-22-2014

Yeah but lets face it, troll-polls cooldown was way too short.

I'm fine with melee assassins being hyperscaling monsters if it means they have to hard-commit to fights instead of just jumping in and almost immediately jumping back out.

This isn't to say that I'm adverse to the idea of Fizz damage nerfs as well.....


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Redeemed In Fire

Senior Member

07-22-2014

*sigh*

The problem is that when an assassin has to hard commit to a fight, they aren't going to win every fight (or even most of them) because they specifically scale to claw the face off of squishy things via high burst damage. Fizz flat loses to most bruisers and every tank, and most supports tend to make his life a living hell.

Is he overtuned right now? Yes. He can burst some things he shouldn't be able to and is rather silly at 4+ items. But the way to fix that is not to ruin his feel for those used to current cooldowns, you reduce his burst until its tolerable and wait for SR to make him popular enough to rework him.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

SylianEUW

Senior Member

07-22-2014

Quote:
The Fizznity:
But the way to fix that is not to ruin his feel for those used to current cooldowns, you reduce his burst until its tolerable and wait for SR to make him popular enough to rework him.
The funny thing is, as much as I disliked Fizz and how OP he is on Dominion, I kind of agree with you here. Messing with range and low CD abilities will mess with players who are used to the regular CDs and ranges. Long CD abilities are more forgiving, since most players are unlikely to get thrown off by a difference between, say, 80 seconds and 100 seconds. Trap ability CDs are also more forgiving, since you don't need them in fights. So if Nidalee needs to get nerfed, increasing the CD on her human W (aka traps) would be a good way to do it. Nerfing her range on her spear or pounce or the CD on her cougar abilities would be a bad way to do it.

So, back to Fizz. What could they hit without messing with his game flow for those used to him on other maps? Simple, increase his ultimate cooldown. While he does need to get his Q and E CDs increased, it might be better to do so globally.

Now, I don't play Fizz myself (though maybe I'll give him a try if he turns out to be not OP after this), so these nerfs are good for me. I do feel that this is kind of a "First they came for the Socialists" thing, so I'm going to speak out now. I'd be quite annoyed if one of the champions that I played got nerfed in a way that'd mess up interaction between other maps. Nerfing Jarvan IV's Q CD or E range or something, for instance, since I play him in TT too.

Do I agree with The Fizznity that reducing the burst is the right way to do it? No, not really, since that'd mess with SR/TT/HA players as well.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Redeemed In Fire

Senior Member

07-22-2014

Quote:
SylianEUW:

Do I agree with The Fizznity that reducing the burst is the right way to do it? No, not really, since that'd mess with SR/TT/HA players as well.

Well, reducing Fizz's burst doesn't really solve much of anything either, no. A surprising amount of his damage is in his nearly entirely invisible W and interaction with Lich Bane. The real solution is a full kit rework, and as he's not a hot button issue nor blatantly broken on SR thanks to a rocky laning phase (for now), he won't be getting one.

Like, the reason I am semi obsessive about 40% CDR is I got used to being so mobile. So much so that I found myself consciously and unconsciously expecting my spells to hit cooldown marks so I can make specific plays. When I say I'm a better Fizz than anyone else (a claim I have long since backed off of), perhaps I should say I'm more adapted to Fizz than anyone else - so much so I didn't even realize I was until I noticed myself trying low CDR builds, pressing E or Q, expecting a spell that didn't come, and being momentarily confused as to why I died.

Could I get used to it? I suppose. Why should I bother though? It's not the Fizz I love playing.

Quote:
SylianEUW:

Now, I don't play Fizz myself (though maybe I'll give him a try if he turns out to be not OP after this), so these nerfs are good for me. I do feel that this is kind of a "First they came for the Socialists" thing, so I'm going to speak out now. I'd be quite annoyed if one of the champions that I played got nerfed in a way that'd mess up interaction between other maps. Nerfing Jarvan IV's Q CD or E range or something, for instance, since I play him in TT too.


"First they came for the Zed mains, I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Zed player.

Then they came for the Ahri mains, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't an Ahri player.

Then they came for the Fizz mains, and again, I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Fizz player.

Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak for me."

:3


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

SylianEUW

Senior Member

07-22-2014

With this being said, we shouldn't exaggerate the nerf. 1 second is just 1 second, or 0.6 seconds with max CDR. 2 seconds on E will be more noticable, but with max CDR it's just 1.2 seconds. It might affect muscle memory, but perhaps not greatly. I'd be very surprise if he won't remain tier 1 after these nerfs.