Regarding 7/17 Varus PBE Change

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Overlord Malz

Senior Member

07-19-2014

@A Bad Varus
@Best Varus KR

Get in here


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Paperkat

Senior Member

07-19-2014

Personally I feel a buff to his E would be more beneficial for a team fight. Making his slow 55% instead of 45% or increasing the radius would let him be the area control/zoning adc.


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BlazingSalvo

Senior Member

07-19-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paperkat View Post
Personally I feel a buff to his E would be more beneficial for a team fight. Making his slow 55% instead of 45% or increasing the radius would let him be the area control/zoning adc.
Or even better, not interrupting movement like Jinx E, which would make it feel way better in rotations with W stacks and Q.


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lojician

Senior Member

07-19-2014

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Originally Posted by Meddler View Post
Not completely certain, couple of things I'm inclined to attribute it to though. Vayne doesn't have any way of projecting influence beyond her auto attack range. Combine that with the way ADC trading/CSing/harassment bot often skirts just around AA ranges (to the extent that a 550 AA versus a 575 AA is a really noticeable difference) and a small difference in MS can make the difference between being able to land or avoid a hit or not. Similarly kills or escapes will often come down to a single AA's worth of health, often just barely landed or escaped.

Agree with your point that dashes/blinks should be expected to reduce such impacts. In Vayne's case however I think the factors amplifying movement sensitivity are strong enough to outweigh the mobility she gets from her kit though.
Well I'm contractually obligated to never post anything on the forums without complaining about how you balance fighters (and also I'm most interested in how this affects my favorite class) so a thought I've had and melee/range laning balance and movespeed:

It seems to me your biggest problem here is that ability to kite/harass in lane apparently scales more with elo than ability to find all in opportunities. So why not try to increase the melee player input by increasing mobility via movespeed (and rebalancing dps/base stat difference accordingly)? This will both help them juke skillshot spam style harass and navigate the AA radius you mentioned to take less free autos. At least with 0 evidence I theorize the ability to mitigate damage like this would vary with elo, I don't actually know obviously.

Now this would also increase their ability to all in which according to my theory would counteract this effect. However I think it should have less impact in all ins than mitigating harass. An extra 5 ms isn't going to help you when lulu peels you with an 80% slow.

I guess the ultimate point here is just that you need to find some more levers for ranged/melee interaction so that you can find a linear combination of the levers that makes a curve more similar to your current ranged curve of "player skill" vs "effectiveness". And it makes sense to me that movespeed could be a steeper one which is what you need.

PS: The fact that I think movement control is a huge player skill input is also why I think your current darius rework plans won't work. His skill vs effectiveness curve is going to stay flat so he's never going to be balanced at both high and low elos if you want 'kiteability' to be his defining weakness. I really think he needs the ability to eventually chase anyone down combined with 0 burst and high dps, or something. So the player skill vs range would come from determining the situations in which he can chase someone down fast enough for his dps to outpace the headstart they got with free ranged damage. Maybe a trundle ult style skill that steals increasing amounts of ms, or something. Melee counterplay against him would have to come from having some ability to burst him and create distance so it would be kit dependent which is the biggest problem I see with this. I'd have to think about it more.


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DemiluniS

Senior Member

07-19-2014

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Originally Posted by Meddler View Post
No plans to do so at present. Wouldn't rule it out of the question entirely, there are likely more interesting ways we can add power to him though.
I think to make him more distinct as a marksman you should make the blight as his passive and give him more reliable steroid on his W.


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Maximum LeBroken

Senior Member

07-19-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meddler View Post
Couple of thoughts behind the change we're testing:

1. As a non mobile ADC giving Varus a bit more safety/control via his ult being up more reliably's an appropriate place to offer a bit of power.

2. Following on from that one of the prime reasons to pick Varus in a team comp is if you want crowd control from your marksman slot (with a focus on team disruption, and greater reliability as a counterinitiate, in contrast to Ashe's strength as an initiator). Amplifying that strength's therefore fits well with our goals of increasing clear strengths and weaknesses for champions to create further distinctions between them.
Please increase his AOE slow radius then


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Thornmaelstrom

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Senior Member

07-19-2014

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Originally Posted by Dyonas View Post
Is there anything you can do with her passive? I know it's a guaranteed crit every X seconds but compared to other ADC passives it feels very underwhelming.
No, Champions in League have asymmetrical allocations of total kit power, in order to give the designers more room to balance all the pulleys and levers they have and still hit their target fantasy and experience. This is why Koggles is perfectly satisfied with a passive he can ONLY utilize when dead, something you generally don't want to encourage in players.

Ashe's passive is fine, but if her total power budget on her kit doesn't match up other ADCs and she can be proven statistically to be less of an asset to her team; then I'd argue that would be an opportunity to add power to OTHER parts of her kit (W/Q as her staple if she's not reliable, R if she isn't making the plays she's meant too, or E if Riot feels the gold-gain passive isn't earning her the reward she's taking for the risk of actually putting points into E early)

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they buffed the Base Magic Damage on her ult, or added a 1.0 Total AD ratio to it.


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Jonny Longshanks

Member

07-19-2014

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Originally Posted by Meddler View Post
No plans to do so at present. Wouldn't rule it out of the question entirely, there are likely more interesting ways we can add power to him though.
Please revert the ms nerfs. I've been saying to myself for a long time that Varus would feel better with 5 more ms without realizing there had been nerfs to it previously. He's not a late game tank-eater like kog and even with slows and his ult, any game with an assassin or Vi just feels like a "don't get within a screen's length of this champion" or die kinda game.


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Sexiest Varus UK

Senior Member

07-19-2014

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Originally Posted by OverIord Malz View Post
@A Bad Varus
@Best Varus KR

Get in here
The Varus circlejerk has been summoned. All 2 of us.


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Jonny Longshanks

Member

07-19-2014

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Originally Posted by ProfDrDeath View Post
Only if his range is decreased...which would be a trade I don't like.

He has already a higher base range-to-MS ratio than most Marks(wo)men/Ranged ADCs with 575 and 330, respectively.

Corki, Ezreal, MF, Tristana, Jinx, they all have lower range and less MS.
I mean Corki, Ez and Trist have great on-demand gap creators, Jinx has flame chompers which is arguably more reliable self peel than what Varus has and her passive. I don't feel nearly as much pain from a lack of movespeed playing them as I do Varus.