Reasons to side with Morgana

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Paperman299

Junior Member

01-25-2011

That's one way of looking at it. Another is that Kayle, on arrival to Valoran, immediately attached herself to the most powerful legal entity in the world, while Morgana started a bakery in a region obviously in dire need of sweets.

If Kayle is a militaristic control-freak bent on taking as much power for dispensing "justice" as she wants, the Institute of War would be an ideal starting place. And if Morgana is a war-hardened rebel who believes in personal freedom, then living in Noxus, which prizes individual accomplishment, and going into business for herself makes a lot of sense, too.


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SethCypher

Senior Member

01-25-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paperman299 View Post
If Kayle is a militaristic control-freak bent on taking as much power for dispensing "justice" as she wants, the Institute of War would be an ideal starting place. And if Morgana is a war-hardened rebel who believes in personal freedom, then living in Noxus, which prizes individual accomplishment, and going into business for herself makes a lot of sense, too.
The problem with such a theory is the fact that in her background it explicitly states she went to High Coucilor Relivash in order to stop Runeterra's intervention in her world's affairs. Backgrounds are always subjective to the champion and may not be true, but that runs the risk of suddenly doubting every champion's background.


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Paperman299

Junior Member

01-25-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by SethCypher View Post
The problem with such a theory is the fact that in her background it explicitly states she went to High Coucilor Relivash in order to stop Runeterra's intervention in her world's affairs. Backgrounds are always subjective to the champion and may not be true, but that runs the risk of suddenly doubting every champion's background.
She wanted to stop Runeterra's intervention in her world's affairs because that intervention was causing her to lose her war. I don't doubt that she remains on Valoran out of obligation, but as long as she's here, I'm suggesting she's angling to do what she always does - impose her sense of justice on the world around her.

As to the problem of doubting champion's backgrounds, Kayle and Morgana's backgrounds are specifically designed to discount each other. On Morgana's, we get "one side called themselves angels, claiming to be beings of perfect order and justice." On Kayle's we get "In her quest for victory, she sometimes would try to lift the wicked up from their morass of evil, but more than often she instead purged those she herself deemed beyond redemption." One assumes the moral compass Kayle works under is absolute, the other claims that it is flawed, and which point of view you deem to be correct actually changes the story.


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Ovalusc1

Senior Member

01-26-2011

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Originally Posted by spectrevk View Post
Still, I don't trust those ****ed cookies. Something about the illustration suggests a sinister purpose to me.
They're burnt...


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spectrevk

Senior Member

01-26-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paperman299 View Post
She wanted to stop Runeterra's intervention in her world's affairs because that intervention was causing her to lose her war. I don't doubt that she remains on Valoran out of obligation, but as long as she's here, I'm suggesting she's angling to do what she always does - impose her sense of justice on the world around her.

As to the problem of doubting champion's backgrounds, Kayle and Morgana's backgrounds are specifically designed to discount each other. On Morgana's, we get "one side called themselves angels, claiming to be beings of perfect order and justice." On Kayle's we get "In her quest for victory, she sometimes would try to lift the wicked up from their morass of evil, but more than often she instead purged those she herself deemed beyond redemption." One assumes the moral compass Kayle works under is absolute, the other claims that it is flawed, and which point of view you deem to be correct actually changes the story.
Imposing one's sense of justice on the world is the essence of heroism. A hero is someone who acts to change the course of world events for the better. Morgana and Kayle's backgrounds complement one another, but I don't know that either really casts much doubt on Kayle.

Assuming that both backgrounds are correct, Kayle is guilty of being a well-intentioned tyrant who maintains a peaceful, just order at any cost. The "freedom" that Morgana claims to defend is never defined, so we have no way of judging its worthiness. Confederates believed they were fighting for the "freedom" to enslave people. Irresponsible corporations want the "freedom" to pursue their business without being made responsible for the environmental damage they cause. I wouldn't find fault with anyone who curtails those freedoms, because doing so is in the defense of the greater freedom of everyone.


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Paperman299

Junior Member

01-26-2011

Absolutely true. And I think here is, until more information on the two is released, as far as we can go. Basically, my argument is made. You ask how anyone could see Morgana not being absolutely the "evil one" and I've done my best there to give you a sense of the same doubts about the situation that I have.


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GarrTorrent

Senior Member

01-26-2011

Really, the argument between Morgana and Kayle, Demacia and Noxus isn't quite a "good or evil" argument like you're trying to dress it up to be.

It is a matter of law versus freedom, order versus chaos.


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SethCypher

Senior Member

01-26-2011

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Originally Posted by GarrTorrent View Post
Really, the argument between Morgana and Kayle, Demacia and Noxus isn't quite a "good or evil" argument like you're trying to dress it up to be.

It is a matter of law versus freedom, order versus chaos.
Or...it's just war.


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Munchlord

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Senior Member

01-26-2011

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Originally Posted by spectrevk View Post
Imposing one's sense of justice on the world is the essence of heroism.
It is also the one source of all the worst atrocities committed in the history of mankind sir. The crusades included merciless slaughter of innocents on both sides of the conflict for this reason, the Nazis were considering the extermination of Jews to be working towards a greater good, the ethnic exterminations in Afrika all come from this type of world view etc. Ultimately, what you bring here is an empty argument because it will just as readily makes Kayle a monster of the worst kind the world has to offer. As far as Kayle being responsible for Morgana's torn wings, that is confirmed and canon.

To adress the "tormented soil is environmental risk" (yes, it's tormented, not tainted). Well we're looking at an ability here, let's look at all of it.... and as it turns out, the "taint" dissipates after a few seconds.

Lastly, to the Demacia v Noxus debate, first apply what I said about rigid justice enforced upon the world in relation to Kayle and remember it well. Secondly, remember Lux judgement, while it may be a singular event, there are suggestions in Lux judgement that she did to others what she had suffered herself, strongly suggesting that it's commonplace. Lastly, go read up on what propaganda is and how it works, then go read the JoJ again. If you don't see it, try reading both once more. My point is that wether it's intentional on Riot's part or just some of the writers being biased and not manageing to keep it out of the writing, several of the articles relating to Noxus and Demacia simply reek of Demacian propaganda. Now that begs the question, why would Demacia even need propaganda....


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spectrevk

Senior Member

01-26-2011

Heroism and villainy are two sides of a coin; what they have in common is the will to act, despite the potential risks. We cannot confirm the details of the war in Kayle's homeland, but her actions here (pirate hunting) fit the definition of heroism rather than villainy.

The thing about Kayle/Morgana that is similar to the Demacia/Noxus debate is that based on the evidence we have, even if Demacia *is* tyrannical, they are a much lesser evil in comparison to Noxus. Likewise, even of Kayle is prone to being overly judgemental, on balance her actions appear to be more positive than Morgana's.

Tormented soil dissipates as part of a game mechanic; lore-wise the description says that she is corrupting the soil, apparently so much that it is harmful to stand on it for even a few seconds. Say what you will about Kayle, but she's a "greener" champion than Morgana, for certain. I like to root for the underdog, so I'm inclined to believe Morgana when possible, but I just don't feel that there is enough evidence to support her side of the issue at this time. The torn wings suggest that Kayle is more vicious than she appears, but we also don't know the exact circumstances of the incident. Anakin Skywalker was a triple-amputee that was set on fire after his duel with Obi-Wan Kenobi, but when viewed in context the fight makes it clear that Kenobi was far from bloodthirsty, and acted entirely in self defense when he severed those limbs.

Plus, just look at the malevolence on Morgana's face when she's baking. There *has* to be something up with those cookies. I don't trust them.


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