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Essence Reaver - Fundamental Problem

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Mysidius

Junior Member

07-16-2014

Ok so before the Essence Reaver "Buff" (where it costed 2650g and gave 50AD), it was already a suboptimal build for most mana hungry AD Champions when compared to Manamune. The new "Buff" just made it even worse.

Mana is mainly an issue for AD Casters earlier on in the game and Manamune perfectly addresses this problem by being built out of a Tear, which is ridiculously cheap and pretty much negates the entire issue.

Unlike Manamune, Essence Reaver does not have any components where it offers mana regen until forming the final item itself. With Essence Reaver you can only get the mana regen when you complete the whole item, which by then the game should be entering midgame and missing that mana regen earlier on might have cost you your lane or all of early game. However, in some games I was still able to get my hands on Essence Reaver (Prebuff - 2650g) by farming really well and getting kills/assists earlier on in the game but with this new Essence Reaver (with a cost of 3400?!?) this is not going to happen.


I really like this item's concept. An item with AD, Lifesteal, CDR, and Mana regen. I play a lot of AD Casters and this is pretty much THE PERFECT ITEM for mana based AD Casters however, for the reasons stated above, this item is currently not viable IMO.


My suggestion is make a new cheap mana regen item (affordable enough for early game) that will build into an Essence Reaver.




TLDR:

One of Essence Reaver's components should be a cheap mana regen item that we can get early game to address the mana issue without it becoming a waste of a slot later on. Otherwise, you would only get the mana regen after you pay 3400g for the whole item and by that time mana wouldn't be as much of an issue or it's just not worth it to get this item.



EDIT: I completely forgot about the forbidden idol. It seems that idol would be a good item to build essence reaver from however that 8mp/5 is kinda lackluster


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The5lacker

Senior Member

07-16-2014

What, you mean...FORBIDDEN IDOL?


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Mysidius

Junior Member

07-16-2014

Hahah yeah I completely forgot about forbidden idol

It actually works pretty well, now we won't have this random 10% cdr coming out of nowhere


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Rawrful

Senior Member

07-16-2014

Also, what the **** Riot. 4.11 Essence Reaver with 60AD was super cost efficient. It was the most cost efficient AD item you could buy for the stats. The Ezreal mid game power spike of Trinity + Reaver was brutal. For the cost, those two items were ridiculous on someone who could use every stat. Yeah, Reaver wasn't slot efficient late game, but that wasn't the point. If you were building Reaver, you were building it for a very specific power spike.

Seriously. I don't get it. Reaver was clearly designed as an Ezreal weapon- Mana regen and CDR were the two stats he really wanted in his Marksman build. He wanted them so bad that building Iceborn and Muramana (And CDR boots for that 25% CDR that is oh-so important) became a thing. 60 AD and cheap Reaver wasn't a super godly item to fill that slot by any means, but Trinity+Reaver+CDR boots gave you the playstyle of Blue while remaining well rounded (Lifesteal without having to go off build), and it synergized well with a third item Infinity due to the AD and crit already in the build.


I just don't get it. Does Riot really want all their games to be 50+ minute stall outs? They seem to hate early and mid game power spikes.


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Krosan

Senior Member

07-16-2014

Quote:
Rawrful:
Also, what the **** Riot. 4.11 Essence Reaver with 60AD was super cost efficient. It was the most cost efficient AD item you could buy for the stats. The Ezreal mid game power spike of Trinity + Reaver was brutal. For the cost, those two items were ridiculous on someone who could use every stat. Yeah, Reaver wasn't slot efficient late game, but that wasn't the point. If you were building Reaver, you were building it for a very specific power spike.

Seriously. I don't get it. Reaver was clearly designed as an Ezreal weapon- Mana regen and CDR were the two stats he really wanted in his Marksman build. He wanted them so bad that building Iceborn and Muramana (And CDR boots for that 25% CDR that is oh-so important) became a thing. 60 AD and cheap Reaver wasn't a super godly item to fill that slot by any means, but Trinity+Reaver+CDR boots gave you the playstyle of Blue while remaining well rounded (Lifesteal without having to go off build), and it synergized well with a third item Infinity due to the AD and crit already in the build.


I just don't get it. Does Riot really want all their games to be 50+ minute stall outs? They seem to hate early and mid game power spikes.


It was also meant as an item for other ADCs who control their lane through abilities, like Sivir and to a lesser extent Varus.

And for those champions, Reaver in its old form was actively delaying their power spike.


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Mr lnfinity

Senior Member

07-16-2014

Quote:
Rawrful:
Also, what the **** Riot. 4.11 Essence Reaver with 60AD was super cost efficient. It was the most cost efficient AD item you could buy for the stats. The Ezreal mid game power spike of Trinity + Reaver was brutal. For the cost, those two items were ridiculous on someone who could use every stat. Yeah, Reaver wasn't slot efficient late game, but that wasn't the point. If you were building Reaver, you were building it for a very specific power spike.

Seriously. I don't get it. Reaver was clearly designed as an Ezreal weapon- Mana regen and CDR were the two stats he really wanted in his Marksman build. He wanted them so bad that building Iceborn and Muramana (And CDR boots for that 25% CDR that is oh-so important) became a thing. 60 AD and cheap Reaver wasn't a super godly item to fill that slot by any means, but Trinity+Reaver+CDR boots gave you the playstyle of Blue while remaining well rounded (Lifesteal without having to go off build), and it synergized well with a third item Infinity due to the AD and crit already in the build.


I just don't get it. Does Riot really want all their games to be 50+ minute stall outs? They seem to hate early and mid game power spikes.
ezreal isn't the only ad in the game...Reaveer was **** on literally every adc except him. They're trying to make it so it wokrs for more than just one champion...


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Olath Quortek

Junior Member

07-16-2014

I've already posted my thoughts on two other Essence Reaver threads but I saw another one popped up so I figured I'd say it again. I agree completely that the problem with 4.12 Essence Reaver is that it is too expensive for what it is supposed to do. It's more effective as a late game item but no longer helps with mana-sustain in early mid-game.

So I guess Forbidden Idol would work as a component of the Essence Reaver but I'm much more in favor of a mid-tier item that builds out of Vamp Scepter much like the Bilgewater Cutlass which would replace the B.F. Sword as the core expensive mid-tier item of the Essence Reaver's build.


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Bees

Senior Member

07-16-2014

Quote:
Mr lnfinity:
ezreal isn't the only ad in the game...Reaveer was **** on literally every adc except him. They're trying to make it so it wokrs for more than just one champion...

Yes they say they are trying to make it a more attactive pick up: "We were a little safe with Essence Reaver because there are a few champions who can get crazy strong with a mana-focused item. After seeing it in the wild, however, Essence Reaver just wasn't giving enough of a power spike for anyone building it, so we're rectifying that to make it more attractive as a pickup."

Unfortunately this seems to be a case where their actions do not match their words. The item is HARDER to build and LESS gold efficient. This makes the item LESS attractive. Here's a simple look at the cost efficiency change. A long sword costs 360 gold and gives 10 AD. Two long swords give 20 AD and cost 720g. The new Essence Reaver costs 750g more and gives 20 more AD. It also needs to be bought in 1550g and 1050g chunks rather than 875g and 975g chunks. This makes it harder to build because until you have the money to buy the next upgrade you are floating all that gold. You are that much gold weaker until you can afford the next big ticket upgrade.

The only advantage this item has is the total stat value. At the end of the game you only have 6 slots and having bigger more expensive items in your inventory gives you an edge. Overall it is simply not worth it, you want the mana regen early and mid game. Late game it doesn't matter nearly as much. These changes make the item LESS attractive for ALL champions, not just Ezreal.

Quote:
Krosan:
It was also meant as an item for other ADCs who control their lane through abilities, like Sivir and to a lesser extent Varus.

And for those champions, Reaver in its old form was actively delaying their power spike.


I don't quite get this comment. Reaver in it's old form was actively delaying their power spike? The new form is much more expensive and would delay a power spike further. By the time you build the new Reaver the laning phase might be over already (ending it's usefulness in controling lane through abilities).


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Lachd

Member

07-16-2014

It really needs to give you the mana regen sooner either make a new item just called reaver and say build it out of a longsword with about the same cost as a vamp scepter or something otherwise its an item that will never see any real use


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Emmerlaus

Member

07-17-2014

Quote:
The5lacker:
What, you mean...FORBIDDEN IDOL?



Oh... Im not the only one who thought of it would make a good prerequite for Essence Reaver.

Forbbidden Idol - Vampiric Scepter - Pickaxe

THAT would be a good recipe for it, to make it usable


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