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Sylian's Top Lane Tier List

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ZallKlos

Senior Member

07-22-2014

And why are you putting AP and AD Ezreal in the same tier if you're using alphabetical ordering.

I feel Kayle should be lower unless someone has a good build. BFT nerf should kill her burst build. Lulu is more a hit and retreat while Kayle wants to commit. Ratio + AS nerfs really got her down. Feels like she has to rush penetration.


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wolferer

Senior Member

07-22-2014

5 ms is a pretty big Nami nerf IMO. That 5 ms buff was very helpful when they made it, and taking it away will hurt. Lux lost 5 ms at one point also, and did not handle it too well.


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SylianEUW

Senior Member

07-22-2014

Quote:
ZallKlos:
And why are you putting AP and AD Ezreal in the same tier if you're using alphabetical ordering.
Mostly to emphasize that AP Ezreal is legit. Not everyone knows this.

Quote:
I feel Kayle should be lower unless someone has a good build. BFT nerf should kill her burst build. Lulu is more a hit and retreat while Kayle wants to commit. Ratio + AS nerfs really got her down. Feels like she has to rush penetration.
Her ultimate CD also got nerfed, although they're buffing it on the PBE. They're also buffing her E ratios on the PBE. Is it enough to pull her down to tier 3? Could be.

Quote:
wolferer:
5 ms is a pretty big Nami nerf IMO. That 5 ms buff was very helpful when they made it, and taking it away will hurt. Lux lost 5 ms at one point also, and did not handle it too well.
Yeah, it'll hurt her, along with the W CD nerf.


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Rachael Passive

Senior Member

07-22-2014

Quote:
SylianEUW:


Her ultimate CD also got nerfed, although they're buffing it on the PBE. They're also buffing her E ratios on the PBE. Is it enough to pull her down to tier 3? Could be.

Yeah, it'll hurt her, along with the W CD nerf.


she has map specific nerfs to her ult for dominion i believe, so the buff on pbe does not pertain to us.


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SylianEUW

Senior Member

07-22-2014

Quote:
Rachael Passive:
she has map specific nerfs to her ult for dominion i believe, so the buff on pbe does not pertain to us.
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/patch/patch-412-notes

"Kayle
R - Intervention
COOLDOWN 100 / 90 / 80 seconds ⇒ 110 / 95 / 80 seconds"

They removed the map specific nerfs, since the global nerfs were larger. The current PBE nerfs are the same as the old Dom map specific nerfs. So they're basically making the map specific nerfs global.


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SylianEUW

Senior Member

07-31-2014

Comments on the recent tier changes:

Alistar moved up to tier 1 from tier 2: He got buffed, so he's a lot stronger early now. He was already pretty strong before the patch, but now he'll be really hard to kill once he uses his ultimate. Furthermore, Ardent Censer got a buff, and it's a pretty good item on him.

Anivia moved up to tier 3 from tier 4: BFT being nerfed makes it easier for her to compete as a burst mage, and she was already pretty decent with good burst and good utility from the walls.

AP Sion added to tier 3 (AD Sion remains in tier 4): I think I've underestimated him, he's somewhat decent, although he has some flaws.

AP Warwick removed from the list from tier 2: The Blackfire Torch nerf makes Blackfire Torch not worth it on him, so calling it "AP" Warwick is misleading.

Ashe moved up to tier 3 from tier 4: AD caster Ashe is actually pretty decent. She provides decently good damage, good kiting, vision from her E, and a global-range skillshot stun.

Blitzcrank moved up to tier 2 from tier 3: BFT being nerfed and Fizz being nerfed makes life easier for Blitzcrank, who has a pretty nice kit and is a pretty solid champion.

Elise moved down to tier 2 from tier 1: The E nerfs hurt her, and she was fairly low in tier 1 to begin with.

Kayle moved down to tier 3 from tier 2: Her E used to have a 0.4 AP ratio, it's now 0.25. This hurt her late game damage quite a bit and made her less scary. BFT being nerfed and Fizz being nerfed nerfed a lot of high burst champions, and one of Kayle's niches were anti-burst. She won't benefit from champions building tankier and more sustained damage.

Kennen moved up to tier 3 from tier 4: I feel that tier 4 might be a little low for him. Kennen isn't that strong, but decent enough to take a low tier 3 spot.

Lee Sin moved down to tier 3 from tier 2: His W shield just lasts for 2 seconds instead of 4 seconds, but the biggest issue is him losing the attack speed slow on his E. This makes it a lot harder for him to deal with other AD champions, and he becomes a lot less appealing as a pick. I will admit that it's possible that he's still tier 2 worthy, but the nerf is really significant for Dominion and tier 3 seems to be more fitting for him.

Lulu moved down to tier 3 from tier 2: She lost her AP slow scaling on Q, and her W mobility was nerfed early on. This means that she's losing out of a lot of map mobility if she maxes W second, and if she maxes W first, she'll lose out of damage and slows.

Malzahar moved up to tier 2 from tier 4: This is mainly due to him being underrated, although Fizz being nerfed helps as well. Malzahar has a 3 second silence, high damage, and a really great ultimate. He has some flaws (no escapes being the most glaring flaw), but when played in the right teamcomp, or by a really skilled Malzahar player, he'll be a beast.

Maokai moved up to tier 1 from tier 2: The rework made him stronger. He can keep his ultimate up longer times thanks to lower overall mana costs and it following him, his saplings can slow people, and his W is on a much lower cooldown and it deals max hp % damage. The lost range from W hurts him though, but he's quite strong right now.

Sivir moved up to tier 3 from tier 4: The ultimate buff helped her, as did the Fizz nerf.

Skarner moved up to tier 3 from tier 4: Skarner has somewhat decent damage, dueling power, and he can be hard as a cockroach to kill with all that shield spamming. His cc is decent too.

Teemo moved down to tier 3 from tier 2: While Teemo may still fill a niche, his overall power level is much weaker than before. His mushrooms do less damage and are easy to find, his damage is not really outstanding as a mage, and he's overall not a great champion. He's still very annoying, though.

Ziggs moved down to tier 2 from tier 3: His late game ultimate CD got hit a lot, which hurt his power level.


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SylianEUW

Senior Member

08-05-2014

I've been doing some thinking, and I've decided to be a bit more restrictive with tier 1 champions. Description of tier 1 champions changed from:

Tier 1 - Some of the strongest champions around. Will fit well into many comps and do well against many comps. Some of them are overpowered.

To:

Tier 1 - Champions that are overpowered to some degree. Will fit well into many comps and do well against many comps.

Due to this change, the following formerly tier 1 champions are dropping to tier 2:

Annie, Nidalee, Wukong, Zyra.

With this said, I'd like to discuss what each tier means to me a bit deeper.

Tier 1 is the tier for the champions I feel are overtuned. These champions should receive some map-specific balancing in order to bring them more in line.

Tier 2 is the ideal tier. These are overall pretty good champions that you can feel good about playing, and that you should be fine with seeing in champion select (assuming they fit the comp and the player knows how to play the champion).

Tier 3 is for champions that can work, but tend to have some flaws that make them weaker than tier 2 champions. Perhaps they are prone to kiting, or have a kit not really adapted to Dominion, or have a tendency to struggle against certain comps. Most ADC that aren't AD casters tend to fit tier 3, since they can work when built around, but you might struggle if you just grab, say, Graves or Caitlyn in a random game. Some of the champions here are close to tier 2 and would just need some number buffs to reach it, such as Ziggs or Lulu.

Tier 4 is for the champions you generally don't want to see in champion select. These champions have some major flaws that make them pretty weak on the map, such as a kit that doesn't work that well on Dominion, or lacking stats.

In ideal balance, there would be no tier 0 champions, and the majority would be tier 2. I suppose some are likely to remain tier 3, and some champions might be held back enough by their kit to remain in tier 4, but ideally, there would be no tier 1 or tier 4 champions. Tier 2 and tier 3 are the best tiers, I'd argue, with tier 2 being the very best.


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Koravel

Senior Member

08-05-2014

Alistar shouldn't be getting ardent censer, because no one should be getting ardent censer in nearly any scenario. I don't understand your fascination with this item. It sucks unless you have 3 auto attackers top, in which case good luck winning that game.


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SylianEUW

Senior Member

08-06-2014

You don't get it if no one benefits from 25% attack speed. But if they do, it's really nice. The base stats are decent, they're all relevant for supports, Alistar, Sona, and Janna can proc it AoE, and I've done the math. Janna's E will grant a larger offensive buff from Ardent Censer than from additional AP. If you want the most bang for your bucks when it comes to buffing, Ardent Censer is the way to go with Janna.

Is it a niche item? An item mostly good on three champions would seem to be a niche item, yes. If people think it's underpowered, I wouldn't mind a small buff, such as another 10 AP or a cost decrease. I don't think it's bad, the base stats are cost efficient and the passive is good.

If you have two autoattackers top, it's really good, actually. You don't need three. If you only have one, I wouldn't get it, unless I'm Janna babysitting a Vayne or something. Then again, if you only have one autoattacker, I probably wouldn't go support in the first place.


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SylianEUW

Senior Member

08-20-2014

Some thoughts on future updates. Comment if you wish:

Ashe up to tier 2 from tier 3 - Testing this one out. My experience with Ashe is that she actually works quite well if you get CDR and armor pen. Something like Ghostblade, Last Whisper, CDR boots, and Pillager and she's pretty scary. She can R someone, W, auto which is a crit, and then alternate between autos and W for pretty good burst late game. Plus, it's very funny to burst down a Talon without taking much damage at all.

Katarina down to tier 3 from tier 2 - Again, this one needs more testing. I'm inclined to say that Blackfire Torch isn't that good on her anymore, and overall she seems like a much safer pick now. She works really well in some comps against squishy comps, but she can easily struggle if her team doesn't do what's needed or if the enemy team isn't squishy enough. That makes her somewhat risky for blind pick and it's why I'm considering her down to tier 2. Thoughts?

Lee Sin up to tier 2 from tier 3 - Simply because he still seems to do quite well despite the recent nerfs. He still has a very solid kit, can burst quite well, and sticks really hard. Good mobility, too. Thoughts?

Kassadin down to tier 3 from tier 2 - The ultimate nerf hurt him, unless people managed to make a mana heavy build work? Did anyone try it? I haven't, although I suppose I might some day. Still, from what I've seen, he seems to be more tier 3 than tier 2 these days. Thoughts?