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Sylian's Top Lane Tier List

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AlphaFerric

Senior Member

06-27-2014

Quote:
Sakuri Ono:
snip

I think you're underplaying Rammus's ability to set up pincer engages, his ult damage, and the fact that he is one of a few tanks in the game with a low cd defensive steroid (himself, leona, galio, and now braum).

But, I also think most people build Rammus too tanky. He really capitalizes on hybrid items like sunfire, odyn's/abyssal, etc. In the grand scheme of things he's not the best tank, but he has his niche just like the rest of them do (I'd peg him most close to amumu).


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Sakuri Ono

Senior Member

06-28-2014

Quote:
AlphaFerric:
I think you're underplaying Rammus's ability to set up pincer engages, his ult damage, and the fact that he is one of a few tanks in the game with a low cd defensive steroid (himself, leona, galio, and now braum).

But, I also think most people build Rammus too tanky. He really capitalizes on hybrid items like sunfire, odyn's/abyssal, etc. In the grand scheme of things he's not the best tank, but he has his niche just like the rest of them do (I'd peg him most close to amumu).


Eh, maybe it's a middle ELO thing. I've just NEVER seen Rammus be relevant, ever. To me he has Shaco Syndrome 2.0. Some people swear by him, I only see him flounder under every condition. I'll agree he has a niche; but lists like this put niche-uses at Tier 2-3-ish; not Tier 1.


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SylianEUW

Senior Member

06-28-2014

Quote:
SkittlesNiceTea:
That's a big difference with Yasuo. NA has tier 3, EU has tier 1.
RCIX/The Fizznity has him in tier 1 as well. People view champions in different lights, depending on which champions they see played and how well people do with them. My experience is that even a fairly weak player will do well with Yasuo once they get to lategame, because the champion scales so incredibly well and has a fairly overloaded kit. In the thread about Yasuo, players like Genericke and AK47WOLF seem to consider Yasuo very strong indeed.

Quote:
Sakuri Ono:
Eh, I really, REALLY would argue Rammus is more of a niche pick/Low ELO Pubstomper (specifically because of lone jungle roamers way out of position) than a GOOD tank.
Let me get a few things out of the way first: I consider the ideal way to play Rammus, in general, is to focus on a high CDR tanky high damage build. Run CDR/level quints and 6 CDR/level glyphs, 3 MR/level glyphs. With 4/26/0 masteries you'll get 30% CDR at level 18. The generic item build is Sunfire Cape, Thornmail, Locket of the Iron Solari. The exact item order depends on the enemy team. Boots depends on the scenario, but I like Sorc boots for extra damage. Ninja Tabi, Merc's, or even potentially Boots of Swiftness if they have a lot of slows, could work as well.

You will want to max Q last. W vs E depends on the situation. If you can get away with it, max E first, but sometimes you might need some extra ranks in W for the durability boost. Summoner spells are up to you, but I like Exhaust/Ignite.

So, now that we've established a build (although I'm sure there are other builds that work fine as well), let's discuss what makes him tier 1. The most obvious answer is his mobility. He may not be able to jump over walls, but he can quickly travel from one place to another. He might gank bot in one moment, and in the next he's on his way top. When you play Rammus, you need to be mobile. I think he actually works better in high elo games than in mid elo games. In mid elo games, people have a tendency to 4-man push to windmill. If Rammus is on the pushing team, he won't do much. His mobility is wasted, and while he can tank the tower, the element of surprise is gone.

In a game where people don't windmill, or if the enemy is windmilling, Rammus can do more. He can assist his team quickly if needed, backcap points, gank bot, all that while still being able to change his mind very quickly. His 1v1 potential with the build I mentioned is very good, he's tanky while doing a lot of damage, and with max CDR, he can cc one target for a long time.


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Redeemed In Fire

Senior Member

06-28-2014

Working on my own update to my tier list, then I'll swing by and break down yours/replies. Spent last night shooting the **** with DD peeps in raidcall or I'd probably have done more website work =p


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Elkington

Senior Member

06-28-2014

The best way to build Gragas seems to be tank now, with IBG as a core damage item.
He brings a lot of disruption, but not nearly as much damage as before his rework. The champions he's good against have switched somewhat. He's not that good at bursting carries and most sustained damage dealers anymore since most of his damage comes from W and he lost the AS debuff on Q (champs like Yi, Yasuo,and most auto-attackers can still destroy him once they get items). However, he's pretty good at killing CD based mages and other tanks. Late game he can duel every tank except for Taric, Thresh, and arguably Mundo.

In short, he's a lot more team dependent than he used to be. He shines mid game and turns into almost pure utility late game. His primary sources of late game damage are his charged W and ult. I feel he would be much better (and much easier to build) if they gave him back the AD scaling on Body Slam. Riot says they want Gragas to be a tanky brawler, but his dueling and melee damage is actually weaker than it was pre-rework.


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SylianEUW

Senior Member

06-28-2014

Some champion's placement is extremely shaky. Gragas' placement is one of them. I simply haven't seen enough of him to properly place him, so if you guys have any experience with him, I'd be happy to take that into consideration. Tier 2 is a very preliminary ranking, but it seems to reflect on his potential a bit, I feel. It encourages more people to try him out, at least. If you've tried him a few times and feel that he doesn't deserve tier 2, tell me and I might move him down to tier 3.


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Koravel

Senior Member

06-28-2014

I disagree that the best way for Gragas is to build tank, at least not IBG style.

I'd say more of an AP bruiser style, ala abyssal scepter. Lich Bane is an incredibly good damage item on him.

Something like BFT/Lich/Abyssal/Frozen Heart/Ninja Tabi/Liandris would be what I would look at.


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SylianEUW

Senior Member

07-01-2014

I planned to move Skarner up to tier 3, but it seems like he's getting some nerfs this patch. I'm going to leave him in tier 4 for now, and I might update the list later.


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SylianEUW

Senior Member

07-02-2014

So, there's a new patch out, and some champions might move because of that. I need to evaluate some champions.

Braum: The duration nerf on his passive is a pretty significant nerf. With that being said, I suspect Braum will remain in tier 1, but we'll see.

Kayle: The E nerf hits AP builds pretty hard. Hard enough for her to move down to tier 3? We'll have to see.

Maokai: Did the rework make him strong enough for tier 1? I'm thinking that it might, but the range nerf and early game damage nerf to his W might hurt. That late game, though... He can chunk a large percentage of someone's health with W, and it's on a fairly low cooldown. Yeah... We'll see how this turns out. I could see him moving up to tier 1, but it's too early to tell. The range nerf does hurt him.

Nautilus: Is the passive buff enough to push him up to tier 2? I think Nautilus has slowly been getting better and better, and it might add up to a fairly good champion.

Skarner: I was going to move him to tier 3 before this patch, but now he's nerfed and up for evaluation again.

Yasuo: The nerf seems to be more related to bot lane Yasuo than top lane Yasuo. I doubt it'll be enough to push him down to tier 2, but who knows? It is potentially 75 less magic damage on a maxed out E.

Zac: This buff could help his damage potential quite a bit. He still has some issues, but if his damage potential is greatly increased by this, it might help to bring him up to tier 3. I'm thinking probably not, but we'll see how significant it is, if someone actually plays Zac.

Ziggs: The Q radius sounds like a pretty big nerf on paper, actually. It might push him down to tier 3, we'll see.

The next tier update will probably come in August. It might come earlier than that, but August is more likely than July.


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ZallKlos

Senior Member

07-02-2014

For Kayle, I'm thinking of maybe more on-hit base, like Nashor's, Liandry's and Wit's. Or back to burst with BFT and Lich. Or AD with Ghostblade and Bortk. While using runes to get CDR to 40.