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Sylian's Top Lane Tier List

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JamesLeBoss

Senior Member

06-25-2014

Quote:
SylianEUW:


As for Quinn, she'll probably stay in tier 2 for now. Her map mobility is good and she can win duels with her Q and decent burst, and her W map awareness is a nice perk, but she has some flaws. Her range is rather short, her poking is limited and if she moves in melee form, she might get crushed. Furthermore, I don't think she really stands out enough as an ADC to be tier 2, and she struggles with assassins in general.

I have a question to you guys: Was the Lucian nerf enough to push him down to tier 3? I haven't seen him all that much since the nerf, so it's hard to tell.



Eh Quinn shouldn't really struggle against most assassins,some yes, but not most. Vault can cancel a large majority of gap closers.

Lucian W nerf didnt do much to lucian on dom imo. Its not as if we any big AD items for lucian to build.


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iDontCareLmao

Senior Member

06-25-2014

Quote:
JamesLeBoss:
Eh Quinn shouldn't really struggle against most assassins,some yes, but not most. Vault can cancel a large majority of gap closers.

Lucian W nerf didnt do much to lucian on dom imo. Its not as if we any big AD items for lucian to build.


She's incredibly susceptible to assassins. As much as I give her credit for, her low range combined with the squishy nature of an ADC makes it difficult to keep assassins at bay or survive their burst. The most you can realistically hope for as Quinn is to be zoned out of the fight until the assassin blows a crucial ability.

She's much more suited to fighting the more popular bruisers (Jarvan IV and Xin Zhao come to mind) because these champions don't normally kill her instantly and she can counteract their gap-closers with E, kite (bonus movespeed from W helps here), and blind them if they happen to get in close range again, all while doing impressive damage.

Assassins... don't really care about that stuff and will either kill you with their burst before you have a chance to fight back or at least do enough damage to force you to leave the fight.


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SylianEUW

Senior Member

06-25-2014

Talon, Fizz, Kha'Zix, and LeBlanc all have very favorable matchups against Quinn. I haven't seen as many Zed's lately, probably partly due to the Blade of the Ruined King change. Anyway, the main assassins will be major issues for Quinn.

When I wrote that she will remain in tier 2 for now, I of course meant tier 3. My bad, I've edited my post since then.

Also, you'd think that her blind would be very useful against Talon and Kha'Zix. My experience is that Talon will either dodge the Q with his 700 instant gapcloser that also silences you (fix that Riot!) if you shoot it as he's approaching, or he will silence and kill you before you have a chance to use it.

As for Kha'Zix, even if you hit the blind, he can just stall it out with his ultimate and then kill you.

Meanwhile, Jinx's W has a very long range, so she can poke at them and use her E to deny them instant access. If she wants to, she can just place the E next to her, and if long as she survives the initial burst, the champion will be snared and could potentially get kited and killed. That's a big "if", however.

Varus can also poke from afar, and his E slows a ton, and his R snares.


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RickyRickz

Senior Member

06-26-2014

Nice tier list Sylian, I'm a complete scrub at this game but I would still like to make a case for Jayce and Taric.


Why Jayce isn't a tier 1 champ in your eyes? His kit has the same things as many of your current tier 1 champs. Poke and disengage like NidaleeGG. He has late game ''I melt everything'' like Yasuo. Armor shred like the bruiser gods. He can't really change the shape of his body like Elise/Nidalee does, but he can change the shape of his stick!


Now Taric I would feel like he's more Tier 2 than Tier 3. His passive feels Dom friendly cause lower cooldowns are always good. With his armor item synergies, defensive steroids and heals he's as tanky or tankier than many of your tier 2 tanks. In some cases he has less CC but he still packs a decent mix of damage/utility. Late game Taric is obnoxious and beats a lot of melee champs 1v1 (ranged would probably run away). I can't pinpoint what he does exactly but he does a lots of things fabulously well...


So, can I have more details on how you feel about these champs?


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SylianEUW

Senior Member

06-26-2014

I've considered Jayce tier 1, and Taric tier 2. I feel that they are not for a few reasons.

Nidalee is not tier 1 because of her poke. Her poke is pretty good, but she's tier 1 because of a combination of map control from her traps (+damage), good poke, and, most importantly, her new cougar form, which has a refreshable 700 range leap and very good burst. She's basically an assassin with good poke and map control. Hence, tier 1.

Jayce has good poke, but it's not better than Varus' poke. Jayce has good burst late game, sure, but his range is 500. He does have a 600 range gap closer, but his melee form isn't nearly as scary as his ranged form, in many cases. And yes, his late game is very scary indeed... If he can get within 500 range without getting melted. His ultimate has a relatively long cooldown, 6 seconds, which means that he can't really switch between forms nearly as often as Nidalee (3 seconds) or Elise (4 seconds).

He is also fairly weak against assassins, and hard cc in general. All in all I'd argue that he adds up as a high tier 2 champion, and not a tier 1 champion.

As for Taric, the Revive Trinket hurt him since it made Ignite more common. Taric is very tanky, indeed, and his auras add a lot of hidden powers. He does have some flaws, however. If you can keep him more than 625 range away from you, you can kite him and wear him down (potentially, his heals are very potent though). He struggles against mobile comps in general. In melee slugfests, he excels. In many other scenarios, he struggles. His damage is also not that great overall. Amumu, Sejuani, and Maokai are all more likely to dish out more damage, I'd argue, perhaps Malphite as well. With that being said, I could see Taric potentially moving up a tier, but he has many flaws bringing him down.

He also faces competetion from Skarner. I will most likely move Skarner up to tier 3. My experience with the new Skarner is that he's a great duelist, with overall solid chasing power and a very potent ultimate. His shield allows him to survive very long and his overall damage is decent.


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Keyen

Member

06-27-2014

Quote:
SylianEUW:
My experience with the new Skarner is that he's a great duelist

Skarner, a great duellist? Ha!



....




...


Don't tell teh secrets FFS!


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RickyRickz

Senior Member

06-27-2014

Thanks for the insight, Sylian. I noticed that when you compare champs it always come down to the range of their abilities and how they clash with each other... I'll try to keep the same mindset while playing.


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SylianEUW

Senior Member

06-27-2014

I'm glad you liked it. It doesn't all boil down to range or mobility, but those are important aspect on how a champion will fare in combat.

This is one of the reason Taric struggles, however. The only thing that helps him stick to a target is his 625 range stun. Sure, if he can actually get someone to fight him, he's a big threat, but what prevents them from running away? This is a major flaw of his. Another flaw is that he's potentially the worst tank initiator for teamfights.

Amumu has a 1100 range gapclosing stun, which he can combine with his ultimate for some extra lockdown.

Sejuani has a 650 range dash with a minor knockup, and she can follow that up with a pretty big slow. For longer chases, she can use the dash to help close the gap, even if she doesn't actually hit her target. Furthermore, her ultimate is an 1175 range AoE stun/slow.

Leona has an 875 range gapclosing snare, which she can combine with a short-CD melee stun. Oh, and she also has an 1200 range AoE stun/slow in her ultimate.

Malphite has a 625 range speed-stealing ability, and a 1000 range AoE knockup (ultimate). Alistar has a 650 range knock-back, which he can chain with his Q for a knock-up and short stun.

Bruam, in a 1v1 situation, relies on hitting his Q to slow his target. His Q has a 1000 range though, and if there are minions around or an allied champion, he can jump to them. Furthermore, his E increases his move speed by 10% for 3-4 seconds, depending on rank. If needed, he can use his ultimate for a knock-up and a slow. 1250 range, although it doesn't reach max range instantly.

Rammus has great chasing potential. With his Q he is very hard to avoid, and he can taunt the target once he reaches them. He doesn't have any real range to speak of (325 for the taunt), but his Q gives him a ton of move speed, and a small slow and knock-back. His great speed helps him initiate teamfights, despite lacking AoE cc, and he will be able to chase down many targets.

Maokai... Maokai shares Taric's trouble to some extent. But while Taric's E has a range of 625, Maokai's W has a range of 650 and it also doubles as a gapcloser. That way, Maokai will catch up to the target, while Taric will have to run up to them before attacking.

Taric has a stun with a range of 625, that takes a moment to travel and doesn't help him gapclose. The cooldown is fairly long, especially if you don't get many opportunities to proc your passive, and especially if you're maxing it last. If you don't max it last, you give up some utility and survivability.

How come Taric has fallen so much? Well... He used to be overtuned. Having a flawed kit doesn't matter as much when your raw stats are overpowered. His passive used to deal 30% of his armor in bonus damage, now it's 20%. His W used to burst for 30% of his armor in bonus damage, now it's 20% as well. The armor shred was reduced by 5 at all levels, and the armor shredding was halved, from 10% to 5%. This meant that if he had 200 armor, instead of shredding an extra 20 armor, he'd just shred an extra 10 armor. In total, with a max W, a 200 armor Taric pre-nerf would shred 50 armor, post-nerf 35 armor.

Those were some pretty significant nerfs. I suppose I could've maxed E second and Q last against high mobility champions, I might try that the next time I play him if I see fit. Even then, his weak initiation tools and weakness to kiting hurt him quite a bit.


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SkittlesNiceTea

Junior Member

06-27-2014

That's a big difference with Yasuo. NA has tier 3, EU has tier 1.


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Sakuri Ono

Senior Member

06-27-2014

Quote:
SylianEUW:

Rammus has great chasing potential. With his Q he is very hard to avoid, and he can taunt the target once he reaches them. He doesn't have any real range to speak of (325 for the taunt), but his Q gives him a ton of move speed, and a small slow and knock-back. His great speed helps him initiate teamfights, despite lacking AoE cc, and he will be able to chase down many targets.


Eh, I really, REALLY would argue Rammus is more of a niche pick/Low ELO Pubstomper (specifically because of lone jungle roamers way out of position) than a GOOD tank. Or even a good champion for here. While that Q might be hard to avoid, if you're running solo, any bruiser or tank can simply walk up to Rammus and say 'hi'; making his initiation even worse than Volibear's since anyone, even minions, can body block shut it down. Doesn't even have a decent CD so once it's stopped Rammus just has to waddle.

That Taunt CC is really a liability to most compositions/team fighting as well. In fact Rammus is one of the units I abhor see being picked for my team because it means we're going to have to run all bruisers or be screwed. It's a single target, medium CD ability (even with CDR) that severely limits Rammus's options to two terrible choices. He either 'catches' a backliner, which leaves all of the enemy team to come in and freely slaughter your squish (because once in that position he can't counter engage). Or he counter engages 'one' target and has nothing else to give.

Pretty much all the enemy has to do is wait for the taunt, laugh, and ignore him. His damage output doesn't even justify the low CC he has unless you so happen to have Sunfire-Thorn'd onto an ADC.

I'd take ANYTHING over a Rammus on my team. Volibear at least has an execution, AoE soft CC, and a hard CC that's good regardless of who you hit (so long as you throw in the proper direction). Nautilus also has better map mobility than Rammus, bizarrely, once you max CDR; as those terrain anchors get him from point A to B quicker than a 'once and down' Powerball (and he doesn't have to rely on starting on a speed shrine either). Throw in the ability to lock down anyone with an AA, and AoE slow, and the Ult and really he gives more protection than 'walk around it-mus'.

And those two are the 'bad' tanks for the current set. :-\