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Sylian's Top Lane Tier List

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SylianEUW

Senior Member

06-23-2014

Quote:
Frog999999:
With zac, you always level E first to bring its CD lower.
That's what I did, he still felt really meh. It's still a 0.5 second knockback, which is rather low. You compare him in power with Nautilus and Dr. Mundo. Nautilus has a 0.5-1.5 second root on his passive, he has his Q hook, his W gives him a lot of bulkiness, his E slows for more than Zac's Q and it does more damage as well, although it is on a slightly longer cooldown, and his ultimate is much better from a cc perspective (less damage though).

As for Mundo, he's more of a tanky bruiser than a pure tank. What he brings is a decent amount of damage, good chasing ability if he can catch his target, and incredible bulk if they don't Ignite him.

Quote:
I'd say provides a lot more for top lane than nunu/shen...
Perhaps so. He's a borderline case. Shen is significantly tankier, and Nunu has some decent anti-ADC abilities. Both are deeply flawed for Dominion, though. I consider Zac high tier 4, but I think he's still a pretty bad pick.

Some other champions that I consider borderline tier 3 and high tier 4 are Singed and Kennnen. They might move up in the future, but for now I'll keep them in tier 4.

Quote:
Ekis the Seraph:
I like your tier lists, though I'd probably put Annie in Tier 2 instead of Tier 1. Don't get me wrong, she has a nice stun and great nuking ratios, but her range is usually small, even with Tibbers and W being AoE. She sort of has to take a chance of going in and getting that stun off against bruisers, many of which who have gap closers, and many of who exist in Tier 1 and 2 of your list.
I do consider her one of the lower tier 1 champions, and she's probably not top 10. With that being said, I do think she's a top 5 mage, and she does tend to bring more than tier 2 mages. Her cooldowns are reasonably short (4, 8, 10, 120/100/80), and her AP ratios are really, really good. Her Molten Shield gives her some bulkiness and punishes autoattackers for hitting her, and, more importantly, with some CDR it's really easy to get a stun up.

That's basically what makes her so good. She bursts incredibly hard and she can get a stun up really often. If someone jumps on her, she can blast them. Furthermore, LeBlanc getting nerfed benefited her greatly, and her range isn't horrible. 625 for Q and W, 600 for R. It's not the best, but she can manage, especially if she plays with a team. She can let her frontline go in, and then she walks up and drops her burst on the enemy team.

@Luninareph: Regarding AP Miss Fortune, do you check damage dealt to champions after a game? If so, how much does she end up doing? I don't value "Being able to stop caps 1v1" all that greatly, because, frankly, a lot of champions can do that, and with her being so weak in duels, she's unlikely to be able to do much against 2 people trying to cap. They'd just send one guy to deal with her. Or they spread out so her E won't hit both of them. Her Q range is just 650, so if she tries to Q someone with a gapcloser, she'll most likely die or be forced to burn Flash.

Besides, AD Miss Fortune also has E, albeit on a longer cooldown. Still, I suspect AD Miss Fortune will do far more damage than AP Miss Fortune. How well do you compare in damage dealt to champions after the games?

Quote:
Worst Ali Ever:
I'd like you to explain why you think Alistar is High tier 2 instead of mid-high tier 3/low tier 2?
Legit question, keep in mind that i just got back and didn't play for 6 month.
Although the list is alphabetical, I actually do consider him high tier 2. The reason for this is Ardent Censer. It gives him stats that he likes (some AP, mana regen, CDR, and move speed), and, more importantly, it lets him give his team a 25% attack speed buff that's nearly permanent. That's incredible. I would need to test him more, but I wouldn't rule out the possibility of low tier 1. But yeah, Ardent Censer.

Assassins being nerfed doesn't help him that much, since he could already press R and ignore most of their burst. LeBlanc not having a silence helps a lot, I'd imagine, and I could see Nidalee being less annoying for him, since she has to get in melee range to do tons of damage now.


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SylianEUW

Senior Member

06-23-2014

Quote:
wolferer:
Pantheon's ultimate has always been about simple map mobility.
That's partly true. Old Pantheon could jump in and then stun someone before he landed. New Pantheon needs to land first, which means he's much less likely to be able to stun someone on landing, which makes his ultimate much less deadly. With that being said, Pantheon is really strong, and I don't find it impossible that I'll move him up to tier 1. After all, even without his ultimate, he is a strong duelist and can burst many champions hard.

Remember that tier 2 champions, especially top tier 2 champions, are still very good champions. Pantheon does have some issues, such as 600 range on all his non-ultimate abilities, which is fairly meh. Both Jarvan IV and Vi have better gap closing abilities (unless you use Pantheon's ulti to gap close, though it requires quite a bit of prediction and they might still be able to walk out of the circle before he lands).

If we look at the current tier 1 champions and disregard the mages and tanks, we see Kha'Zix, Talon, Yasuo, Jarvan IV, Vi, and Wukong. All of them have better abilities to gap close, and most of them will do more in a teamfight too. Pantheon has the advantage of his near-global ultimate, which does make him a good alternative to these champions.

Oh yeah, another reason is that the Exhaust nerf hurt him. Exhaust has a range of 650, his QWE all have a range of 600. It's very easy to Exhaust him before he jumps in, and then he loses a lot of his burst. It's also not too hard to Exhaust him and just run away. He could run Flash and Flash + W people, I suppose, but then he gives up either Exhaust or Ignite.


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wolferer

Senior Member

06-23-2014

Exhaust doesn't hurt Pantheon as much as other bruisers because he is a caster, and ignores the attack speed reduction for the most part.

I agree that Vi is above him, and Jarvan probably also is, but I would place him above Wukong. Wukong only really does op things when he ults, and his early game strength is very diminished after the Q nerf. Pantheon meanwhile has a very strong early game.


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SylianEUW

Senior Member

06-23-2014

Exhaust hurts squishy champs the most, but burst casters tend to be really hurt by it as well. A tanky bruiser can just shrug it off, keep attacking and save their skills until it runs off. Pantheon doesn't have that luxury, since he's not that tanky, he's more of an assassin-ish bruiser.

Wukong's gap closer has a slightly longer range (625), and he can often stealth before initiating if he needs to get the jump on someone. His damage is still pretty good overall, even without his ultimate. With that being said, Wukong has a great ulti.


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Worst Ali Ever

Senior Member

06-23-2014

Quote:
SylianEUW:


Although the list is alphabetical, I actually do consider him high tier 2. The reason for this is Ardent Censer. It gives him stats that he likes (some AP, mana regen, CDR, and move speed), and, more importantly, it lets him give his team a 25% attack speed buff that's nearly permanent. That's incredible. I would need to test him more, but I wouldn't rule out the possibility of low tier 1. But yeah, Ardent Censer.

Assassins being nerfed doesn't help him that much, since he could already press R and ignore most of their burst. LeBlanc not having a silence helps a lot, I'd imagine, and I could see Nidalee being less annoying for him, since she has to get in melee range to do tons of damage now.


Didn't really test advent on him in dom yet but while i understand why it's strong on him, i'm not sure it would be in my first 2 core items, probably a 3rd. a 2nd if it really benefits my team that much maybe.

For kass,leblanc,khazix,and nid. It was more about the nature of these champions + their burst than only their bursts.

Their damage never were that much of an issue i agree but their kit made it really really hard to ali to deal with it and be able to counter what they were bringing to the table in terms of cc,kiting,going in and out and making it hard for ali to catch them or peel them from his carries.

Because of silence on kass and leblanc + her snare to kite you as you run at her being silenced.

Khazix was hard to deal with because of that slow + reset on leap,he was the most easy of these 4 to deal with tho.

Nidalee well, good luck catching that stupid champion as Alistar in dominion. She is always roaming around the zones where you want to be as Alistar to zone and take control of the jungle,giving vision of you and poking at you and there is absolutely nothing you could do about it unless she made a mistake and allowed you to hard engage on her with one of your teamate close to you.

All these aspects of these champions got nerfed now. That's why i was bringing that point.

Except for nidalee but at least now the spear is way easier to dodge.Ali has a pretty big hitbox, with the old spear broken hitbox it was hard to avoid it in the narrow path close to spd shrines and around the points.So yeah like you said she is forced a little more to go in melee range now wich is what ali wants so she's easier to deal with as long as you avoid her poke.

I can see why he can go up on the tier list only from these changes but i'm not sure he's top tier 2 material yet.I need to play him more in this new environement.


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charr aznable

Junior Member

06-23-2014

You should release a bot lane tier list as well.


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SylianEUW

Senior Member

06-23-2014

@Worst Ali Ever: Alistar is always going to have some issues, but he does have a 650 range gapcloser. Furthermore, I feel that Flash might be worth taking on him, which does help him catch enemies. I should mention that unless you have at least two champions on top benefiting from attack speed, Alistar won't be all that special. The AoE attack speed is great on him, but being reliant on that to truly shine prevents him from being tier 1. In an ideal situation, Alistar is tier 1-worthy, but you won't always have teams like that, and he doesn't fit on as many teams as Braum, Leona, and Rammus. So I'm probably going to leave him in tier 2.

Quote:
charr aznable:
You should release a bot lane tier list as well.
I don't know enough about bot lane to make one. The new Skarner seems pretty good though!


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Luninareph

Senior Member

06-23-2014

Quote:
SylianEUW:
@Luninareph: Regarding AP Miss Fortune, do you check damage dealt to champions after a game? If so, how much does she end up doing? I don't value "Being able to stop caps 1v1" all that greatly, because, frankly, a lot of champions can do that, and with her being so weak in duels, she's unlikely to be able to do much against 2 people trying to cap. They'd just send one guy to deal with her. Or they spread out so her E won't hit both of them. Her Q range is just 650, so if she tries to Q someone with a gapcloser, she'll most likely die or be forced to burn Flash.

Besides, AD Miss Fortune also has E, albeit on a longer cooldown. Still, I suspect AD Miss Fortune will do far more damage than AP Miss Fortune. How well do you compare in damage dealt to champions after the games?


My concept on damage numbers is going to be quite biased considering my situation, but I do check the damage graph after games religiously and I'm usually the second highest damage dealer (sometimes third if the not-us was rather good). I am frequently beaten out by the friend who SR-jungles, but I almost always outdamage my tank friend (not that that's an achievement) and my assassin friend (which is more of one).

It's not so much that AP MF has an abnormal ability to keep turrets safe as it is that I am always floored by how quickly I see health bars disappearing while I'm doing it. It's not that she's exceptionally good at defending turrets 1v1, but that she destroys in 2v2-or-mores. E has a quite considerable diameter, so if you drop it on top of somebody's head, they actually have a long way to go to get out of it - especially with the slow - and are CC-Liandry's burning for a while thereafter. If you have a second ally in their face, either they waste time running and die horribly or they try to ignore the AOE and still die horribly. However, frankly, AD MF's E is rarely a threat, since AD MF levels it last and doesn't buy AP. It's not uncommon, in my experience, for people, especially bruisers, to decide they can just tank the damage and end up Liandry's'd to death.

As to the range on Q, I never use Q to poke; always E. I save rapid-fire Lichbane-Qs for when I'm engaged, willingly or not. E is my poke the rest of the time. Mana is a non-issue on Dom and leveling E doesn't increase the cost, and even if I only catch them in one second of E, that's enough to apply the slow and the Liandry's burn and there go two bars of health. E's 800 range (not even accounting for the 100-radius of E to add a little extra safety when needed) makes it the much preferable poking tool in my experience. Which gives her the range advantage over AD MF, since AD MF's E has ****-all for damage.


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Koravel

Senior Member

06-23-2014

AP MF has only one thing going for her. No one is expecting e to do any damage. If the person realizes its AP MF and dodges accordingly, you lose.


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SylianEUW

Senior Member

06-25-2014

I have tried Skarner a few times and I've played some more Quinn. I will probably end up moving Skarner up to tier 3. His new stun really helps for top fights, and he can be deceptively tanky while dishing out respectable amounts of damage. I faced an Ashe and with Boots of Swiftness, W spam and hitting my E, I had little trouble chasing her down and killing her.

As for Quinn, she'll probably stay in tier 3 for now. Her map mobility is good and she can win duels with her Q and decent burst, and her W map awareness is a nice perk, but she has some flaws. Her range is rather short, her poking is limited and if she moves in melee form, she might get crushed. Furthermore, I don't think she really stands out enough as an ADC to be tier 2, and she struggles with assassins in general.

I have a question to you guys: Was the Lucian nerf enough to push him down to tier 3? I haven't seen him all that much since the nerf, so it's hard to tell.

As for AP MF, I don't see that build catching on anytime soon. I don't want to rank builds that are pretty much never played by anyone except one person. AP Tristana and AP Kog'Maw got ranked because while they're not terribly common, I've seen them a few times and feel that it's enough to warrant a ranking. I've never seen AP MF in Dominion.