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Sylian's Top Lane Tier List

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SylianEUW

Senior Member

06-22-2014

Quote:
Luninareph:
I'm curious as to your opinion on AP Miss Fortune, if I may inquire.
I've never seen it in Dominion. From a theory-crafting perspective, I don't think her AP ratios are good enough to justify her. Her E has a 0.8 AP ratio over 3 seconds, but who will stand in her rain for the full duration? Her Q damage is somewhat acceptable if you hit two targets, but I doubt that'd happen often enough, and if she just hits one target the damage is mediocre. The range, 650, is not that great either, and she has an animation when casting it, which means that the enemies might come close enough to kill her.

Her ultimate AP ratio is very nice, however. If you position well, you can really dish out massive damage with that AP ratio. It seems to me that she'd do best against a team that wants to disengage until you have big teamfights. I'm sceptical of it, but the AP ratio of her ultimate seems nice. She's still probably bad, though, and high mobility champions will probably wreck her. Granted, they'd wreck AD Miss Fortune as well, but at least then you'd be able to fight back with autoattacks and perhaps you'll have someone peeling for you. I doubt I'd pick a support in order to peel for AP MF.

But yeah, this is all theory-crafting. I've never seen AP MF in Dominion, so I can't say for sure.


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Frog999999

Member

06-22-2014

Why is Zac in tier 4? I would say that he's a strong tier 3 candidate - 3 forms of cc (q, e, r), great initiation, decent peel for your carries, and one of the best bot lane gankers around.


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SylianEUW

Senior Member

06-22-2014

I tried Zac in a game in order to evaluate him. While I ended up with pretty good K/D/A, I found out that the champion himself is flawed on Dominion. Like every revive passive, the cooldown is far too long on Dominion to really be useful, and more often than not you will die before you revive. His Q has very mediocre range (550), the damage isn't impressive and the slow isn't exactly great. His W does decent, damage, but that's all it does, and his damage overall is not that great, even when compared with other tanks.

His E has horrible cooldown if you don't level it (24 at level 1, 12 at level 5), and the ability is pretty meh for several reasons. For one thing, you need to charge up to really use it. This might work well on slower-paced maps like Summoner's Rift, but on the Crystal Scar, you need to be able to react faster. Having to charge to jump somewhere is problematic when you might want to apply cc immediately. Also, 0.5 second cc? That's pretty pathetic...

His ultimate pretty much forces him to use E to initiate first, and even then it's not really all that impressive compared to other ultimates.

Yes, Zac is a decent ganker for bot lane, but he's not the best. His ability to escape fights is pretty much based on whether they have and disrupts. If they have, good luck getting out with that E! Additionally, his ability to initiate fights require him to charge his E first. His damage isn't even that great...

I believe Zac was balanced upon the assumption that not having mana would be a great boon. It is on Summoner's Rift, but on Dominion, most tanks don't care about mana in the first place. Zac is undertuned, and he has some problems with his kit. Nearly any tank is better than he is, I'd argue.

As for peel, it's rather awful. Using his E to peel often means you'll have to charge it, telegraphing your intentions and making it easy for them to avoid your 0.5 second cc. His slow is meh and not very good peel either, and while you could use your ultimate to peel, so could pretty much every other tank.


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Frog999999

Member

06-22-2014

With zac, you always level E first to bring its CD lower. Maxing E also gives him decent damage, and with some CDR it's up fairly frequently. Also, the only time he charges his E is to initiate/gank (often when you have the spare time to charge it up) or escape. Most of the time you don't bother charging it as you're already in the midst of a fight. Sure, he usually doesn't do as much damage as the tier 1-2 tanks, but with some AP his e>r+w can take down most squishy champs in one combo.

I'd say provides a lot more for top lane than nunu/shen, and as tanks go I would put him on par with mundo/nautilus (a la tier 3).


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GET REKT FGT

Senior Member

06-22-2014

I like your tier lists, though I'd probably put Annie in Tier 2 instead of Tier 1. Don't get me wrong, she has a nice stun and great nuking ratios, but her range is usually small, even with Tibbers and W being AoE. She sort of has to take a chance of going in and getting that stun off against bruisers, many of which who have gap closers, and many of who exist in Tier 1 and 2 of your list.

The only time she's ridiculously strong is when people haven't devoted to building to countering her (i.e. too many AD champs beasting on her team so that she gets ignored)

Just an observation though.


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Luninareph

Senior Member

06-22-2014

I am by no means a champion player, and I further have the extremely coddled advantage of always playing with friends, but I have to say that in the right situation, AP MF might be scarier than you think. (Unless you've already accounted for all of the things I'm about to mention.)

Preface: I am by far the most passive of the friends I play with. I play with a core group of three, of whom one is an assassin player, one is an SR jungler, and one enjoys nothing more than tanking with his face (why yes, he did buy Braum on release). In comparison to these three, who all dive in on people with ruthless abandon, I am the cautious one who hangs back and takes potshots. This definitely influences my experiences with MF.

The two things that make AP MF scary are Liandry's and Lich Bane. The way she procs Liandry's between E and R is eye-popping. I have torn off three-quarters of people's health by managing to catch them in the perfect E+R crossfire. You of course bring up a valid point: who is going to stand around in those abilities for their durations? Well... the thing with Dom is, people do it all the time because they have to stand still to cap points. AP MF can be surprisingly beastly at defending points because she can drop E from fog of war and run off with Strut. With some CDR from Ionian or Nashor's or Athene's, E has an 8-ish second cooldown, and you can zone people like mad with it, to say nothing of how hard it lets her push. I tend to drop E on myself when someone with a gapcloser starts heading in my direction, and the way Liandry's chunks them down just gladdens the heart.

The other part is Lich Bane, which has Ezreal-esque synergy with her Q in terms of applying on-hit effects. At max rank, Q has a three-second cooldown. With Lich Bane to buff up her Q, MPen to help out her W, and Liandry's to beef out her E and R, AP Miss Fortune can perform surprising feats. (Doesn't hurt that it's so rare that nobody sees it coming.)

Problems? Oh god, of course; gapclosers are still highly dangerous, she takes two big items to get rolling at full speed, and she can't duel worth ****. But she's ace at defending turrets and chopping heavy, bruiser-y types in half so other carries can annihilate them. She pretty much has to run around the map with a friend at all times, but for me, that's never been a problem. I think I've gotten some respectable results out of her before. However, I am well aware this is helped along, perhaps entirely, by the fact that my friends work with me and are more than willing to provide the protection and distraction I need.

Basically, I'd like to argue that I think she holds an interesting niche role and should be considered a very low Tier 3. But even if you'd consider her a Tier 4, I hope I at least made a strong enough case that she should be considered at all.

Sorry for talking your ear off :3


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Worst Ali Ever

Senior Member

06-23-2014

I'd like you to explain why you think Alistar is High tier 2 instead of mid-high tier 3/low tier 2?
Legit question, keep in mind that i just got back and didn't play for 6 month.
Because of khazix, kass and leblanc nerfs and reworked nid maybe?
It was quite hard to deal with them with Ali.
Because in general, the most powerfull champions in tier 1 and high tier 2 (according to the other tier lists too) are making it a lot harder for Alistar to use his kit at max potential.
I'm interested to know what you think about that.


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JamesLeBoss

Senior Member

06-23-2014

Quote:
Worst Ali Ever:
I'd like you to explain why you think Alistar is High tier 2 instead of mid-high tier 3/low tier 2?
Legit question, keep in mind that i just got back and didn't play for 6 month.


It's alphabetical.


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Worst Ali Ever

Senior Member

06-23-2014

Quote:
JamesLeBoss:
It's alphabetical.

oh, didn't notice lol.
ty aha.
I'm still interested to have opinions on it tho.


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wolferer

Senior Member

06-23-2014

Quote:
SylianEUW:
As for Pantheon, he's fairly high in tier 2. I feel that the ultimate nerf made it much harder for him to properly land ultimates and stun opponents when they land. He is still a very strong champion, but I don't think it's quite enough for tier 1.


Pantheon's ultimate has always been about simple map mobility. For a brief while when it was invisible half the time, Pantheon was one of the top 5 strongest champions in the game. Now he's back to where he's always been, a tier 1 bruiser-caster that is always forgotten about.

His damage is absurdly high, and is somewhat ranged. His passive makes him very strong vs bruisers and the stun provides a ton of utility for the team.