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If Not NA, Then Are We Nothing?

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Ironwill

Senior Member

06-19-2014

Hello, My name is Iron Will (Will for short).

This is going to be lengthy, so if you don't have the patience or thoughtfulness to read all I have to say, then you should probably just move on. During the course of this content, I will convey what kind of man I am and I will also try to help you realize what kind of a person you are, using perhaps your hopes, dreams, loyalties, but most importantly ... your hearts.

First of all a lil bit about myself. I am a 45 year old gamer from mountains of Virginia (a place where the internet and games get cursed about routinely in the name of religion). But I have had a love for gaming since I had a T.I. 99-4a computer at age 16, playing the plug in cartridge games. I enlisted and served in the U.S. Army Infantry at age 18, getting a personal computer and growing into A.I. gaming with Might and Magic 2, recording one of the world's highest scores (and yes I have the certificate from them). After 4 yrs I got out and started college and continued service for the next 8 yrs in the National Guard. I ended up serving in the Panama Crisis and Desert Storm. But in college I was introduced to M.U.D.D. Multi User Dungeon and Dragons ( a text based game vs A.I. and humans). At 22 this was my first experience fighting against other people...and I have to say...I was HOOKED! I moved on to many games through the years including but not limited to:

- Heroes of Might and Magic III (won newcomer tournament by beating the "seasoned" Vesuvius, tournament director) and became one of the top 50 in the world.

-Mech Commander, a game which never got the fanfare it deserved. I remember one galaxy battle(a tournament derived system) with an outlying planet that Inner Sphere wanted, and we had expended the use of all the veterans in our guild. On team Mongoose, Myself (M-wylpower) and a 15 year old were the two new gamers maybe 2 weeks new to the guild and the only choice they had to defend it. We got Clan mechs and everyone in our guild told us to just have fun, that we would lose this matchup, due to difference in mech costs and resources allocated. I refused to believe that. What happened next shocked every member of our guild when the two of us defeated a 3 to 1 armor and weapon ratio by using guerilla tactics. I also developed "Blackout Drive" a minimap navigation system for navigating when the map is unexplored, gaining a huge advantage at the start of games.

- Guild wars 1 and 2,World of Warcraft (all the way thru Lich King expansions), Asheron's Call, Ultima Online --wow I remember level 3 venturing into the woods to chop some wood and 2 orcs come running up to me...the adrenline back then ,Vindictus,Horizons,Diablo,Warcraft Series,Warhammer,Marvel Heroes,City of Heroes,Final Fantasy, and Dungeon and Dragons Series.

Yeah... a lil bit about myself... I may have misstated that.

Anyhow, I've found myself with League of Legends since start of Season 2. I've followed the game since then, and must say its one of the most balanced, skill oriented games I've ever seen. There is no PAY TO WIN mode, only a PAY TO LOOK PRETTY. To win...its up to the player, up to the team. Some of you may already be trying to look me up on LOLKING, but let me stop you right there. Im not a ranked player. For the last 2 years, I've wanted to try to see how far I can get. But fear of failure has halted that. "What if I'm all washed up?" keeps ringing in my head. You see of all the things in my life I've experienced, I am not familiar with failure. I've always succeeded in anything I was asked to do. Also, what if I did succeed? What if I did get into Challenger? I would be a laughing stock at 45 yrs old. I just don't fit in, as much as I want to. So what do I do? At this time I become a FAN. And now with all my loyalty invested to this NA region, it seems even THAT is being taken from me as well.

I'm sure this isn't the first post about LMQ or EG or the threat of Foreign teams coming in and taking over our heritage(within gaming), our loyalties, and our region. Now understand, I am going to try my best not to tell you that what I think is right, and your view is wrong. Most sports have their regions where the best players/teams from that region "represent" and give it their all against the other regions for the world title. I took the time earlier to explain my life experience with gaming. I did this for a reason. To show you WHO is out there rooting for our teams. How deeply our love of games is rooted both here in the U.S. and in Canada as well as Latin America. Some of you are only 3 to 4 years new to game fan loyalty. You just see your favorite players, and some of them are on foreign teams. So since that's the way you see it, I'd like to jog your memories with some of our players.

How many of you remember that time when TSM almost burned their house down with Dyrus's massive microwave skillz? Or the many arguments with Reginald and members. Remember the emotional hug from Dyrus and Chaos, upon his leaving TSM? What about that adorable Imaqutipie, ok maybe not so adorable, but so funny nontheless. Remember the excitement when Shiphtur backdoored and destroyed the nexus beginning season 4 on Ahri? Remember Zion Spartan's uncontrolled rejoicement at that moment? What about that Bubbadub! Man that mustache! I kid you not, everytime I see him competing, he reminds me of a cousin I have in Tennessee. It invokes those feelings of "family" in me. Complexity ....a team who is just chasing a dream, Bubbadub with a wife who loyally stands by him and NA League of Legends. And lets not forget Cloud 9 and Meteos with his respectful and self honest commentary after games. And remember the Banana, LemonNation got "busted" with in pregame setup ? And ofcourse, who can forget Wild Turtle and that OP SMILE!? Everytime I see him smile I see the spirit of North America League of Legends.

But with the Emergence of Season 4, the spirit of NA is now threatened. First, a European lcs team(Evil Geniuses) that moved to the U.S. when they could not advance to the Season 3 World Championships in EUW. Then secondly and more importantly, LMQ a Chinese team from LPL China region who, also, could not advance to Season 3 World Championships within their region. They too have moved to America to take advantage of the slightly lesser competitive edge of NA teams. I am going to get to a few points on all of this, but I would like to ask all of you (that are still reading) to keep those "memories" from earlier FRESH in your mind. Because all of those memories, all of those dreams.... are in threat of dying.

Now I have read a few posts on this subject and seen arguments in support of LMQ and I would like to show those points and offer a counter point for you to think about. Note, that this is not so we can argue back and forth, but so that you might be able to look at it from another angle and I will omit the origin of the poster's quotes as to keep scrutiny off of them...

- "Because one Asian team means the NA is now just Asia Minor League?"
What you fail to see here with this comment is the future. There is E.G. and now LMQ. Next Season you will most likely see 1 or even 2 Korean teams migrate when they realize the ease of transition to NA scene and its competition faults. If that happens, you might not see ANY NA teams represent North America in the Season 5 World Championships. It could be as simple as LMQ, Korea1 and Korea 2 showing up.
- "The fact that LMQ came over as an entire team really worries me. It means that Riot doesn't care if the scenes are representative and history has shown this to be a huge mistake."
... You're not alone in your worries my friend.
-"If people care about nationality more than the quality of plays, I'd say good riddance. Because that's nationalism. And nationalism shouldn't be supported in any way"
This one got my GOLD STAR for idiocy(unless he's trolling). I ask you, what are we if not family? if not community? if not a country? if not a continent? We are NOTHING. Each of the NA teams that we already have and COULD have , is a part of our souls, our spirit. It's what makes us a part of this Region. If you don't believe in any of that, then you my friend are simply existing....nothing more.
-"Theoretically, shouldn't we want to see the best players? I mean NA and EU are underperforming or unable to perform better, so they should be pushed out of the scene until they can legitamize their existance."
How right you are. Shouldn't EG and LMQ have been pushed out of the scene in their regions until they can beat their competition there and legitamize their existance? I mean you actually said it yourself. Why should they feel the need be allowed to come over to NA and cheat their way into a world championship slot, all because they couldn't cut it in their own regions?
-"LMQ is just a team immigrating to America and trying hard to learn english..."
They are not immigrating. That would suggest they come here for perminent residence. If Riot went bankrupt today and League of Legends was no more as of tomorrow, by tomorrow night LMQ would be back on a plane to China, I promise you that.

I guess I should get to the end of this. Do I want to see E.G. and L.M.Q. be successful and make it to worlds? Yes, I support ANYONE who wants to be a winner. I just think they should do it in their OWN region, prove themselves in their home region where they have not yet proven themselves in. I don't support them coming over to our continent and "stealing" dreams and hopes from our teams. Everyone doesn't worry about E.G. because no one thinks they are a threat, but playoffs are a 0w 0L start. As it stands right now, it is a REAL and CREDIBLE threat that one of our beloved NA teams will not represent North America at Season 4 World Championships, all because a well-skilled Chinese team from The Chinese Region has come over here to take it from them. I know that right now, you're not worried about that too much because you see how tight the standings are. But If LMQ takes one of those 3 spots, whoever that 4th spot was, you fans of that 4th spot are gonna be saying this ... " WTH how can TSM not make it!? Damn, this isn't fair!", or "Poor bubbadub, complexity tried so hard, they deserved more", or "C-9 not at worlds!??? all because this foreign team stole their chance from them!" or how bout " OMG! LMQ and E.G. go with TSM to Worlds with our real NA teams C9 and CURSE getting their slots taken! screw this game!"
Here is a percentage representation of the events how they were, how they are, and how they could be...

2013 World Championships Representation:
Team 1- 100% NA Team, Team 2- 100% NA Team, Team 3- 100% NA Team
-------------------------------------
2014 World Championships Representation: (based soley on teams avail, not records)
Team 1- 75% NA Team, Team 2- 71% NA team, Team 3- 66% NA Team
-------------------------------------
2015 World Championships Representation: (with LMQ, EG, and 2 Korean teams entering)
Team1- 50% NA Team, Team 2- 42% NA Team, Team 3- 33% NA Team
-------------------------------------
ALL 3 years (2013-2015) for Chinese Region are..
Team 1- 100% Chinese Team, Team 2- 100% Chinese Team, Team 3- 100% Chinese Team
Same for Korea, Same for Europe, Same for Asia. But for SOME REASON ...North America doesn't get that same guaranteed right to "represent". We simply get a CHANCE now. RIOT, if you don't ammend this, address this, or fix this, then why care about the college level competition? Why even put it out there? That colleges and their students participating are another representation of their "community". That's all a college is anyhow... a region within NA, a small "represented" community . Why even entertain the thought of "representation" for them when you will allow foreign teams to just come in and shatter any hopes of rising to the point of professionally representing North America?

Some of you that are ok with LMQ and EG coming here argue that they're not taking away our american dream, well at the Spring Promotion E.G. "took" that dream from an NA team. At the Spring Challenger Series L.M.Q. "took" that dream away from an NA team. Those two "lost" teams had their chance of competing at a higher level, experiencing and becoming a better team and possibly making NA stronger, stripped from them, before it even started by two foreign teams who had much more experience than them. Experience that, in their OWN region, was never taken away from them by an outside force. Those ten guys that no longer have that American Dream, can only sit back and hope that it doesn't continue to worsen. Is that too much to guess about at this time..... perhaps. But I can tell you this. When I served in the Army for 12 years, I stood for America...... I defended America, even sometimes when I didn't agree with its agenda. I didn't go to China and defend them or pull guard to watchover them. I pulled guard to watch over each one of you. Because you are my region, my continent. You are my country, my community. And at age 45, it would make me so proud to see ANY FIVE of you represent North America at Worlds, before seeing a foreign team who didn't share those memories with us, who didn't go through the trials and errors...the self discovery of hope and that "American Dream". Why do I feel this way? Because for lack of a proper or better word...all of you NA players, pros, and fans... are, in a way, like "family" to me.

Or I could be wrong That's been known to happen in my life


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msigma

Junior Member

07-24-2014

bump for justice!


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Bub Bidderskins

Member

08-01-2014

What a fantastic, well thought out post. I could not agree more fully. I hope as many people see this as can, and I really hope Riot takes action on this subject for next season. I'm not sure if I could handle more LMQ's coming over.


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Traxtin

Junior Member

08-01-2014

Only 1 bit of nitpicking. It was actually 4 teams that lost their dreams. When LMQ and EG were in challenger series it was kind of obvious they were going to come out ahead. They were so far above the other teams because they were basically full professional teams. They denied 2 teams in challenger their chances to compete in a promotion series. Then they went on to take the 2 teams out who were in Relegation Matches. that's 4 teams, 20 people.

Other than that fairly spot on. I liked seeing both teams in the LCS though. Was fun watching the games and seeing how the differences in play styles have helped evolve the NA regions play. However... IF LMQ gets the ticket to worlds? Which seems, unfortunately, quite likely... I won't be watching world's. Let them come to our region and play sure. But they are not from our region, they are not permanent residents, they are not citizens. They are here on WORK VISAS. They are NOT representative of NA and should NOT be allowed to represent NA!


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TheOneTrueHam

Member

08-02-2014

Depending on how much Riot is concerned about the Nationalism aspect you mentioned, they might want to prevent this esports scene from turning into SC2's scene. The WCS America tournament is over 75% Korean/Chinese players. SC2 however had a really strong debut in Korea with the GSL and other regions didn't really compare as well. League of Legends is different because it didn't originate in Korea like SC1 and SC2. The competition seems closer than it does in SC2. There are normally only a handful of SC2 pros that can compete at the highest level but with league, NA has been around for awhile they just have lacked the infrastructure to make esports as successful as in Korea. NA has a chance and have closed the competitive gap a lot more in this season but to me it seems that a few players from other regions is okay but if more LMQ's show up the scene may become like SC2 WCS America where the only victors have been Korean. Even though Korea is my favorite region by an incredible amount, I want to see NA stand a chance, I want there to be a Gambit of NA back when Gambit was in its prime taking down both Azubu teams at IEM Katowice and becoming a dominant international threat. There are steps being made to make it better but NA has some catching up to do


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Turbby Bot

Member

08-05-2014

This was quite a long thread. Although I am Chinese and I did think LMQ is doing nothing wrong switching a league, I realized that if an American Team came into china and took one of WE's spots I would be pissed. Plus, China LPL DOES have the rule of the 60% Chinese Nationality rule, so I don't see why NA LCS cant have that rule. Maybe its because NA is more of a referral to an area (continent?) rather than a country?


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Ironwill

Senior Member

08-05-2014

Quote:
TurbinePro:
This was quite a long thread. Although I am Chinese and I did think LMQ is doing nothing wrong switching a league, I realized that if an American Team came into china and took one of WE's spots I would be pissed. Plus, China LPL DOES have the rule of the 60% Chinese Nationality rule, so I don't see why NA LCS cant have that rule. Maybe its because NA is more of a referral to an area (continent?) rather than a country?


I think that's the basis of what most of the North American critics of LMQ and EG are trying to represent. I think "WE" feel (my theory) that the rest of the world and Riot is collectively implying that our region doesn't deserve 100% regional representation, that we are beneath the regional respect and courtesy that everyone else enjoys, and you can see that in most of the responses by pro-LMQ flamers, when they state how weak we, as a region, are at worlds, and how we should be thankful that any team is here to "save" us from our own demise. It not only angers us but it hurts in a way as well.

I think it shows such a huge absence of character to see a region who knows they are not the best at something, but still try hard to win for that region, all the while admittedly praising Korea and EU and China with talk of how good and skilled their gamers are, and to then have the fans and players of those regions drag us through the mud , insulting our skill level at every chance, and implying that without the outside help of a foreign team...we are some kind of lost cause in this world genre.

You are right, LMQ did nothing wrong(by the letter of the law). We are mostly angry with RIOT for their failure to protect our representative rights here in the NA LCS.

And TurbinePro I DO APPRECIATE your neutral(and not negative) response to my original post... as it shows some character in you :P


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Stupot

Senior Member

08-09-2014

I respect your point of view, but you're making it sound as if EG and LMQ came here to stomp NA. LMQ wanted to avoid the corrupt LPL and actually get paid something in the US, and Snoopeh, Yellowpete, and Krepo wanted to come to the US for a while because of better opportunities. And if they elevate the competition, then so be it. I doubt this will become the SC2 scene anytime soon. LMQ and EG came, and they are living here now. They are adapting to the culture. The Koreans that took over the NA scene had brief stints of living in the US, but they never had to actually move here. I say that if they want to come here, there is nothing stopping them. I don't want NA to be a total joke, and I'm fine with foreign players coming here and improving our talent pool. That's my two cents.


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Ironwill

Senior Member

08-09-2014

Quote:
Stupot:
I respect your point of view, but you're making it sound as if EG and LMQ came here to stomp NA. LMQ wanted to avoid the corrupt LPL and actually get paid something in the US, and Snoopeh, Yellowpete, and Krepo wanted to come to the US for a while because of better opportunities. And if they elevate the competition, then so be it. I doubt this will become the SC2 scene anytime soon. LMQ and EG came, and they are living here now. They are adapting to the culture. The Koreans that took over the NA scene had brief stints of living in the US, but they never had to actually move here. I say that if they want to come here, there is nothing stopping them. I don't want NA to be a total joke, and I'm fine with foreign players coming here and improving our talent pool. That's my two cents.


Respecting my point of view and you down vote my post, and anyone below the post who agrees with it? And then without reading my last reply you call the NA region a "joke". So in order to sum you up, I am going to copy and paste one of my last paragraphs...

"""I think it shows such a huge absence of character to see a region who knows they are not the best at something, but still try hard to win for that region, all the while admittedly praising Korea and EU and China with talk of how good and skilled their gamers are, and to then have the fans and players of those regions drag us through the mud , insulting our skill level at every chance, and implying that without the outside help of a foreign team...we are some kind of lost cause in this world genre. """

I never implied that they came here to STOMP NA, I simply told you EXACTLY what happened. You hear a story of avoiding corruption from their Sharon and you think this is some angel team, but then it is found out all the while she and a third party were trying to steal ownership from the true owner. You don't know the truth and I don't know the truth, therefore only the FACTS matter, so go re read my post and you'll see what the FACTS say. And btw, learn what respect is before you downvote people simply because they agree with an ideal that you don't agree with.


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progdog

Member

08-10-2014

Of course Riot feels like the NA scene is worthless compared to everyone else. That's why they let CLG skip superweek so they could go play with "real players" in Korea. Screw their North American fans, that doesn't matter.