Riot is looking to remove Silence from LB

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Blacklight

Junior Member

06-09-2014

I wonder, would it be possible to replace Leblanc's silence with soft cc that depends on the ability which triggers the mark? For instance, triggering sigil with chains means increased slow/snare, sigil with distortion creates a protective shield (like kassadin), and sigil with mimic reduces cooldowns or increases damage if the both marks are successfully proc'ed.

You could even alter the cc that sigil offers depending on the difficulty of triggering it. For instance, throwing sigil and then connecting with a full length chain results in longer slow, snare, or even stun, since it requires Leblanc to accurately lead her opponent into her spells.

This would allow Leblanc to have the same feeling of manipulating opponents with her sigils as before (for baits, outplays, and escapes) and also offer new forms of counterplay which her old silence lacked.


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Sceptre Wielder

Senior Member

06-09-2014

Go read my thread


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Lichblade

Senior Member

06-09-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meddler View Post
SgtCrispy's on the money here, having Charm be a skillshot does a lot for the skill's health. Ahri's also got much bigger windows of downtime when she's not mobile and doesn't burst as fast as Le Blanc tends to, so again not directly comparable.
Whats your take on Akali then? Shes got point and click burst damage that is unavoidable, well she doesn't have CC but the fact that her stealth on her W is so easy to use, you can't fight her back unless you paid gold for a pink ward.

So basically you can't fight Akali on your own terms unless you have a reveal.


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Hamut

Member

06-09-2014

There is good and bad to this change. For starters, this is definitely a nerf to Leblanc. There is some question as to whether this is a good thing. Leblanc has a low win rate, but is competitively dominant (a common symptom for high skill-cap overpowered champions). Nerfing her removes her competitive dominance but does nothing to ameliorate the problem that low skill players lose often on her (in other words, it fixes one problem while not touching or even making worse another problem). Some would argue that it is appropriate for some champions to be very hard to master and that therefore it is okay if that champion has a low winrate for unskilled players. Riot seems to believe this somewhat (but not completely if you look at the xerath rework for example). If this is an okay design paradigm then this nerf is fair and fits with riot design values regarding relative power levels of champions.

The other thing to consider is what this change actually does in game. It does not effect leblanc's damage allowing her to retain her identity as an assassin and to remain a legitimate threat throughout the game. This is good, a healthy strong champion is better for the game and much more fun than an unhealthy weak champion (like veigar, pre-rework olaf, or garen). What this change does accomplish is it allows targets of leblanc's burst to do something in reaction. Good players will have a chance to escape or retaliate like they do against zed, bad players will still die. This means that some agency has been given to the opposing team. While this is bad for leblanc, it is good game design and fits with the values that riot discusses when they talk about champion design and reworks.

Overall this change will make leblanc a healthier champion to play against and I fully support it.

I have one additional note regarding the comparison to talon. Talon in very similar to leblanc. He can initiate cleanly and assassinate a target without counterplay, using his silence to ensure there is no retaliation or escape. Talon has one major difference from leblanc though. After talon has assassinated a target, he has no escape. He is guaranteed to be at the location of his victim. When assassinating a lone target, the result is the same as Leblanc, but in a teamfight scenario, Talon is vulnerable to counterattack from the enemy team (excepting his one target of course). Leblanc's distortion on the other hand provides her with an escape automatically, meaning she can assassinate a target and return to safety without providing options for the enemy team to counterattack her. Though this vulnerability DOES NOT make Talon a completely healthy champion, it allows for more counterplay than leblanc does. Therefore it is reasonable (if not necessarily optimal) for talon to have a silence. In an ideal world maybe talon would get his silence removed too in favor of some other form of power (involving counterplay) for his kit.

TLDR: Removing Leblanc's silence is good. It is not necessary for talon, but he does have some of the same problem.


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CaptnJakSparrow

Senior Member

06-09-2014

I can see this now, leblanc Q, R, W -stun, snared, dead-


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Currentsstirrer

Junior Member

06-09-2014

I would like to see her silence removed because its really unfair for her to have that much burst and be able to silence champs


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CaptnJakSparrow

Senior Member

06-09-2014

Leblanc uses Q R W -leblanc has been slain by ryze-


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CaptnJakSparrow

Senior Member

06-09-2014

The silence is to secure her combo. Now, her W can only be used for escapes, or risk dying immediately.


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Hamut

Member

06-09-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lichblade View Post
Whats your take on Akali then? Shes got point and click burst damage that is unavoidable, well she doesn't have CC but the fact that her stealth on her W is so easy to use, you can't fight her back unless you paid gold for a pink ward.

So basically you can't fight Akali on your own terms unless you have a reveal.
Just a quick reply here, you are correct, akali is also not necessarily good for game health, but she has to reveal herself when she attacks and has no CC, meaning that she can always be attacked when she is attacking. It's not perfectly fair, and you can't attack her pre-emptively, but it's healthier than current leblanc. Also, remember that an upgraded sweeper can detect her during a fight and is a one-time investment instead of a consumable so there is item based counterplay to akali. Riot has said item counterplay is sub-optimal, but it's still better than the current 0 counterplay against a leblanc.


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Hamut

Member

06-09-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptnJakSparrow View Post
The silence is to secure her combo. Now, her W can only be used for escapes, or risk dying immediately.
This is in fact the entire point of the change. Risk of dying should be present when the payoff is completely killing another champion. Now a leblanc has to choose between more damage (offensive W) and more safety (hold w for defense).