Riot is looking to remove Silence from LB

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Ark Angel HFB

Senior Member

06-10-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meddler View Post
SgtCrispy's on the money here, having Charm be a skillshot does a lot for the skill's health. Ahri's also got much bigger windows of downtime when she's not mobile and doesn't burst as fast as Le Blanc tends to, so again not directly comparable.
So why not more the silence to her Chain... like everyone is saying... then she would have to land a skill shot to get the effect.


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Hyrum Graff

Senior Member

06-10-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Derangeddeer View Post
if leblanc gets that removed silence, does not than mean when she goes in she will have no dueling capacity, because im just thinking of a lux vs leblanc situation, and if silence gets removed then lux will always destroy leblanc, same goes for ryze vs leblanc, ryze will always destroy leblanc, and will lack damage...
>Leblanc
>Does no damage
>?????


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YournightZ

Junior Member

06-10-2014

I'm concerned that the removal of LeBlanc's silence will force her to play a in a predictable burst-or-bust style. This would contradict any concept of deception that LeBlanc has.
If her silence is removed, enemy champions will be able to fight back freely during her chain combo. This promotes the idea that LeBlanc players should not use sustained damage combos (that would operate safely only due to her silence/bind combination.) If LeBlanc can't perform any of these combos against an enemy AP Carry, she will be forced into a predictable and stale combo, such as QRE. These combos make her E seem misplaced on her kit, as much of its use will be ignored.

Shifiting power from her burst and into her ability to "trick" people into a single-target combos (protected by cc) would keep LeBlanc from resorting to predictable actions and help alleviate her ability to nuke enemy carries during a team fight. If LeBlanc was forced to spend more time on top of a target but with the assistance of single target crowd control and mobility, her E would fit in her kit more properly and she would gain counterplay in the form of grouping and cc removal/tenacity.

At the moment I think her ability to simultaniously chunk her enemies with QR and have WR available as strong, safe AoE damage with an escape results in her creating frustration. Using her WR for large amounts of AoE damage should provide a clear downside, but without promoting her to use W only as mobility. Before the changes to her ultimate, LeBlanc was balanced around the fact that she couldn't push if she wanted to 100-0 her enemy. With the changes, she no longer has such downsides in laning and midgame; additionally she can keep opposing teams from staying near each other because of the AoE damage in her WR. In teamfights this means she punishes teams for trying to "stay close and peel" and punishes them for separating (by assassinating an important champion.)

Removing LeBlanc's silence would force her into predictable play; predictable is the last thing LeBlanc should be. The problem with her stems from her new safe, strong AoE damage combined with her retained ability to DELETE people.
I propose that her W should lose its base damage, and be more like:

FIRST CAST: LeBlanc rapidly dashes to a target location leaving behind a return pad. If Distortion triggers Sigil of Silence's mark, enemies within a 250-radius area of the mark take equal damage but are not silenced. LeBlanc can activate Distortion again in the following 3 seconds.

This would provide LeBlanc with a crucial period of vulnerability when pushing(multiple abilities are on cooldown) and reinforce her "dangerous presence" as being within her normal W range. She would retain the ability to appear from a distance and 1v1 strongly with her CC, but would no longer be able to deal large amounts of AoE damage with WR. My concerns are that this would devalue WR as combination almost only useful when escaping or securing a distant kill. Distortion could remain significant as a threat in 1v1 scenarios by doubling the damage Sigil of Silence's mark, or it could not deal additional damage to the marked target.


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Yawnli

Senior Member

06-10-2014

this adds counterplay whats wrong with that. it was retarded when she could poke you 1500 health in 1 second and run away anyway


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ElderTom

Member

06-10-2014

Frankly, as a LeBlanc main, I can't say this nerf is inappropriate. Due to the lack of response from the enemy champion upon being combo'd, playing as LeBlanc has become really tedious and not at all very entertaining.; and playing as any other mid AGAINST LeBlanc I've often found myself unable to do anything to her due to that silence, which really demonstrated how unhealthy her gameplay is.

I bought her because her monicker is "The Deceiver", not "The Unstoppable Nuke". LeBlanc players should aim to mislead the enemies into wasting their abilities and ending up in disadvantageous situations, but nowadays her playstyle seems more like "LOL I can't be touched, bye random enemy player! BOOM". Believe me, I get more satisfaction when a Syndra ults my clone rather than when I one-hit K.O. the enemy ADC.

With the removal of the silence, LB players will have to learn how to use SoM+Distortion to poke their target and force them to waste their CC abilities in an attempt to prevent an eventual combo. Let me explain this with an example.

Let's say I'm playing against an Ahri mid. I could go WQRE on her, but she'd use her charm to stop and nuke me. So, what do I do is I W towards her to make her THINK I'm trying to combo her, but then blink back when she uses her E. Knowing that for the following 12 seconds she'd have no way to CC me, I can easily R(W)>Q>E or, if I'm particularly lucky/skilled with skillshots, E>Q>R(Q) to inflict a total of around 580/640 dmg (with 60 AP, I did the math, don't worry). Ahri's base health at level 6 is around 860 HP, which means that if I've poked her even just once with a Q>W before, she'd be low enough for me to kill her with the aforementioned combos.

And if she ults/flashes away, well in that case, good riddance. Next time, she'll have less ways to escape my combo or my jungler's gank.

This is what LeBlanc's motif should've been from the start, playing mind games with the enemy team. Let's look as some of the champions from CaptnJakSparrow's list.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptnJakSparrow View Post

If she tries to Q W any mid champion without silence she'll be instantly obliterated. Q W on Annie. Well, annie just Q W Q'd and then ignited you, aaaand you're dead.

Q w ryze? Well, you're Q'd, snared, bouncy balled, Q'd, flash, q ignite dead.

Khazix would just Q W then jump on you're landing zone, then q and kill you.

Veigar would just nuke you.

Zyra would just snare and nuke.

Fizz would just throw his r into your landing zone so you'd jump back into it and get nuked, or risk facing him head on and die.

Talon would just immediately E Q W R before you even had time to jump back.

Galio would just taunt you forcing your jump timer to run out, then proceed to pummel you to deaath and kill you.

Heimer would just stun you into 5 turrets and kill you before you could jump back.

Malz would just e, w, r deadz.

Cass would just R Q E deads.

Are you seeing where I'm going with this? Basically . . . she diiiies.
First of all, if you leave time for your opponents to do ANYTHING before you're able to blink back, stop playing LB, or practice pressing Q>W>W because in all my time playing as a LB I've NEVER seen someone react quickly enough to do me anything, unless they wanted to do something else that ended up screwing my dash (I.E. a Syndra trying to stun me with her Q>E, or a Malzahar who wanted to ult me).

Annie would probably be able to Q me, as the ball would follow me, but by the time she uses her W I'll be right back where I was before dashing. And if I'm engaging while Annie has her passive up, I'm probably drunk.

Ryze would be an idiot to Q first instead of snaring me, because I'd blink immediately after his first spell. And even if he DID snare me, his snare at level 1 lasts 0.75s while I have 3s to blink back. Also, his Q at level 3 and with 60 AP deals about 140 dmg. Not so much, don't you agree? You can draw your conclusions yourself.

By the time Kha'zix does all that I'm safe again under my turret.

I can't say much about Veigar. A good Veigar is still now LB's worst nighmare, since her dash can't pass through the stun.

Zyra can TRY to snare me. Once again, good luck hitting me when I can WW real fast and blink back before she can even raise her finger.

Like Veigar, Fizz is still one of LB's most difficult opponents, but not because of the reason you mentioned. A good Fizz will always trollpole to avoid my Q>W combo, which means I can safely move back to the exit point without fearing the Shark. And I have to congratulate the Fizz who is fast and cool enough to place the R exactly on the right spot while his health gets halved.

TBH I've never played against a Talon as LB. But if I were a Talon I'd wait until LB's W is on cooldown to go all in, not when she's trying to poke me.

Galio is already the BIGGEST counter to LB as of now, so the silence removal will change little. Thank God no one plays him.

Heimer can have a Max of 4 turrets around, and that's counting the ulti effect, if I recall correctly. Also, either he's really good at throwing that grenade and hits me perfectly mid flight, or, once again, I'll blink back too fast for him to react.

As a Malz main too, I can Garen-tee you that to use all the abilities you mentioned the second LeBlanc hits him is impossible. The only way to stop her from blinking back would be either to ult her immediately, at the cost of losing a big part of the damage that comes from his pool, or hit her with a Q the moment she dashes to him, and that would require some really precise timing.

With Cass, it's all a matter of who has the best reaction time. If she sees the dash coming and is able to hit me with a R, then you're probably right, I'm dead.

But hey, not all matches are good. That's why draft exists. My belief is that with this patch, LeBlanc will finally really be the high-skill high-reward champ she had to be from the start. And if someone's good with her, seeing her win/rate getting even lower shouldn't bother them much.


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hartar

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Senior Member

06-10-2014

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Originally Posted by Wykes Tech View Post
(Warning: PBE Content is tentative and iterative - what you see may not reflect what eventually gets pushed to live servers! Manage your expectations accordingly. )
True,indeed bro


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Niting

Senior Member

06-10-2014

Le Blanc is dead. Bring on the QQ for Syndra!!!!


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DemiluniS

Senior Member

06-10-2014

Quote:
Believe me, I get more satisfaction when a Syndra ults my clone rather than when I one-hit K.O. the enemy ADC.
the clone is pretty small part of her kit which is pretty strange considering she's "a deciever", and ofc it feels great when the enemies wasting abilities on it, but it's not the point.
Leblanc is the squshiest out of all the assasins, and the silence allowed her to stay in range to do her combo, not she won't be able to do those clutch plays at low hp because the enemies can respond.
On top of it the just made her Q a boring ability, exactly the same as katarina's and akali's Q.
And the most annoying part is it took them so long to do something with her, and all they come up is removing her silence. now when they added "counterplay" people just gonna straight up cry about her damage and not the lack of conterplay.


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LadyOfRegiment

Senior Member

06-10-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meddler View Post
On characters with longer time to kill, less mobility or less reliability by contrast silences are less of an issue.
But you nerfed Soraka's silence? Okay.


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hibernis

Junior Member

06-10-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyOfRegiment View Post
But you nerfed Soraka's silence? Okay.
Come on, it is not directly comparable. Soraka's silence had no cost!