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Health above Dragon/Baron

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CupcakeTrap

Recruiter

06-10-2014

Quote:
Blaster:
I really don't get this community or riot. First timer's are something akin to cheating, but now what is basically 10x more of a cheat is being introduced and it's okay?

Why the hell is timing dragon and baron a skill that's worth preserving, but clicking and reading the numbers while paying attention to many other factors not?

The problem with timers was about some people having them automated and others having to do them manually. It was about unfairness. Riot has said (I think it was Morello) that they're considering putting in automatic jungle timers for everyone. They seem to agree that it's "annoying difficulty" rather than "interesting difficulty", but they think it would be unfair if some players got that "annoying difficulty" removed while others didn't. I think they're right.


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Aerothal

Recruiter

06-10-2014

Quote:
RiotForScience:
It is visible in a Spanish language walk-through that was posted Yesterday. It is an actual numeral above the health-bar of Baron and Dragon.

i am not so sure about the numeral, TBH.
That goes right into the same camp as showing turret range by changing terrain.
I feel that takes away the skill component of the game, estimating when to smite, playing with the turret range and getting better at it by practicing instead of looking at darker grass (just an example).

smiting at the right moment is a skill, it should not come down to just watching a number.

dancing at/around turret range is a skill, it should not be determined by terrain.

I can see a health bar with tics to approximate health, but a counter is too much IMO.


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CrafterOfLaughs

Senior Member

06-10-2014

This whole health bar debate sounds like the whole DotA2 mockery where players went mad over whether or not to display the mana bar unless selecting the enemy hero.


I can't believe players would get so worked up by an interface level optimization that is fairly benign.


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Xyltin

Senior Member

06-10-2014

Quote:
FatedTitan:
So on the preview videos of the VU for Summoner's Rift, Baron and Dragon have a health counter above their health bar that shows how much health they have left. And while I'm sure many will be happy that they no longer have to click the Dragon/Baron and watch the numbers fall to time a good smite, I feel this takes a massive amount of skill out of the Jungler's role. Getting the perfect smite is the best feeling in game and if it is dumbed down to just watching numbers above the creature, anyone will be able to do it.


Please reconsider this addition @RiotForScience and other devs who worked on the VU.


So should Riot remove all HP numbers on minions and monsters to make last hitting and especially smiting harder? And it would really be only harder or actually more random, because you can never know if you will actually finish the monster or not.

And what is so different with numbers above the HP bar or numbers in the other HP bar? Get a mod to change your UI and you can moce that HP bar closer to the middle and then you can see the HP pretty easy, too. And what is so skillful on moving the eyes from the top left corner to the middle and back for some time when you do drake while fighting (you need to look at the minimap and your surrounding and the HP bar). That is not really skill, but also more luck. If the enemy catches you at a second where you are watching in the middle of the sceen, you will fail to smite more likely. If they engage when you are watching the HP numbers, you may die or your team may end up losing the fight. It only needs a small window of opportunity and looking up and down over and over again gives such opportunities, but it has nothing to do with skill.

Nex time someone says that Traps should not be colored in the team color, because it is skill to remember which trap was set by the enemy.
Oh and skill CDs should not be shown, increases the skill.

That is exaclty the skill that Riot doesn't want. They want player interaction, and watching numbers at the top of your screen or in the middle of your screen doesn't change the skill, nor does is have anything to do with player interation.


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Adalore

Senior Member

06-10-2014

I much rather have the health bars visible, I could go either way with visible specific health directly on the mob. I mostly see it as freeing up skill real estate. If I can stop caring about the tiny things that only give me an advantage that needs to be explained in fair depth, maybe we can get more mechanics that are directly understandable and be worried about other things instead.

Right now I can estimate epic monster health fairly easy with how much I have played jungle, I much rather pay attention to other mechanics and allow newer players to get up to speed faster.


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Xyltin

Senior Member

06-10-2014

Quote:
CupcakeTrap:
The problem with timers was about some people having them automated and others having to do them manually. It was about unfairness. Riot has said (I think it was Morello) that they're considering putting in automatic jungle timers for everyone. They seem to agree that it's "annoying difficulty" rather than "interesting difficulty", but they think it would be unfair if some players got that "annoying difficulty" removed while others didn't. I think they're right.


I would call it "annoying work" not "difficulty", because timing buffs that you finished yourself is not hard to do and needs any skill except for typing on a keyboard. Dragon gets timed without any input anyways in that situation. It is work. It is not fun to do, it is not like you need to do it under pressure or that you can make a huge mistake except for failing at math (what is not a skill you should need for lol).

Riot could give you the option to type the sentence "I want power!" over and over, and if you can do it, while playing, at least 10 time per minute, you get +X XP or maybe a free HP pot. It would be a small advantage, just like timing your buffs, but what would you need to do? Is that really skill you want to use when playing the game? And should someone who can write faster, get an advantage? Because someone who can write faster can time the buffs in more situations and more exactly.

Is that the future of lol? Typing fast and being able to look at numbers at the top of the screen that are made barely visbile? Making the UI bigger actually helps, but takes away more vision from the rest of the screen.


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TSM WiId Cat

Member

06-10-2014

Quote:
aceofsween:
The difference is that Curse Voice was an optional, 3rd party mod. This is a feature that everyone in the game will be able to use.

They didn't get rid of it because it was a 3rd party thing, they got rid of it because it lowered the skill gap between players.


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Frrz

Senior Member

06-10-2014

Quote:
Blaster:
I really don't get this community or riot. First timer's are something akin to cheating, but now what is basically 10x more of a cheat is being introduced and it's okay?

Why the hell is timing dragon and baron a skill that's worth preserving, but clicking and reading the numbers while paying attention to many other factors not?

Almost feels like i wasted building up my innate memorization of dragon hp bar health v my lvl for nothing.

It's a shame, not that i care extremely, just feels like something that's extremely hyporcritical.

THIS IS SKILLFUL(basic math), BUT TIMING DRAGON SMITES AND WATCHING A HP BAR IN THE FAR CORNER LEFT WHILE SMITING BARON/DRAGON, NOPE.
NO SKILL

It's w/e. Though if you're going to this, you need to automate dragon and baron timers for everyone given that they had vision when it was killed.


I don't think you understand the problem with the timers and Riot's stance on them. Riot's announced they didn't want players to have to look to third-party modifications to play on the same level as the people using them. It has nothing to do with skill or them being considered as cheats. Having the heal numbers above the head is a UI implementation by Riot and therefore everyone is on the same plane.

Additionally, this can be considered a UI revamp for visual clarity. Health bars and the numerical values were already in the game and displayed to you Riot only decided to move their position and visual presence. On the other hand, timers are not the same as UI revamp as the game didn't present that information to you at all, you had to obtain it yourself.

Quote:
TSM WiId Cat:
They didn't get rid of it because it was a 3rd party thing, they got rid of it because it lowered the skill gap between players.


How little you actually know.

From the official post.

Quote:
Riot Sargonas:

Automated timers: while our design team is still exploring whether we’d want to add any kind of built-in timers to League of Legends, we agree with many of you that having it accessible only through a third-party app is a clear competitive advantage between those who download it and those who do not, and isn’t acceptable.


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Blaster

Senior Member

06-10-2014

Quote:
CupcakeTrap:
The problem with timers was about some people having them automated and others having to do them manually. It was about unfairness. Riot has said (I think it was Morello) that they're considering putting in automatic jungle timers for everyone. They seem to agree that it's "annoying difficulty" rather than "interesting difficulty", but they think it would be unfair if some players got that "annoying difficulty" removed while others didn't. I think they're right.


I understand, but i still disagree that timing SHOULD be done automatically. I mean really, why not just display the timers for the buffs, too? Well, i guess it really doesn't matter. Doing the basic math isn't really a skill that i think should be preserved for it's sake alone. I agree with you on that.


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Blaster

Senior Member

06-10-2014

Quote:
Frrz:
I don't think you understand the problem with the timers and Riot's stance on them. Riot's announced they didn't want players to have to look to third-party modifications to play on the same level as the people using them. It has nothing to do with skill or them being considered as cheats. Having the heal numbers above the head is a UI implementation by Riot and therefore everyone is on the same plane.

Additionally, this can be considered a UI revamp for visual clarity. Health bars and the numerical values were already in the game and displayed to you Riot only decided to move their position and visual presence. On the other hand, timers are not the same as UI revamp as the game didn't present that information to you at all, you had to obtain it yourself.



How little you actually know.

From the official post.



1. Timestamps automatically record the death timer on dragon and baron, therefore it IS AUTOMATICALLY presented information.

It's the very same. Both are displayed.

2. You can't take riot's excuse for crapping on curse voice seriously.

The real reason they did it was because they don't like curse voice because they can't monitor the users interactions with each other, even though they are interacting about the league game, and because it's something they don't like to begin with.

I think they've STILL not posted on that curse voice thread saying the new one is fine, or if they did, they waited SOOO long, and curse voice even sent reps and tried to get it riot approved.
They don't like them. It's very clear.