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How to have a >70% win ratio and other goodies

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Sc2ggRise

Member

01-12-2010

i honestly don't mind queue dodgers as long as they leave within the first 5-10 seconds. it's the jerks who wait til 0:01 that piss me off.


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Vichar

Senior Member

01-12-2010

Quote:
BankBank:
I think both of the opposing sides of this argument have valid points.

Dodgers: It can be INCREDIBLY frustrating to be paired with teammates who feed, play like ****, have no idea what's going on. On top of this, if you'll ask this type of person to stop ****ing up and just play defensively or whatever, they'll get extremely rude. I'm sure everyone has been in a game with an intentional feeder. It's a nightmare.

Anti-dodgers: Does queue dodging help you to avoid playing with people that suck? I doubt it. I've played with random people that had names like "killer1dude" and "MaZtEr993" and they sometimes end up being good. They usually pick Ashe heh.

In summary: Avoiding bad players and people that are extremely new to the game is a worthy pursuit but queue dodging probably doesn't accomplish this. Instead, we should blame Riot for not having a working matchmaking system.


This is a decent summary. However, I would disagree that dodging is not effective.
All you have to do is write a program that records the names of people you've played with that you thought were good and very, very bad. Each time you solo queue, simply look at the names above and compare them to your 2 lists. If there are no people from your very bad list, go ahead and play. If there are people from your bad list, and nobody from your good list, dodge.

Of course, on day one, you won't know anything about anyone so this system only works after hundreds of games. See? MM can't tell if a person is uber-bad, so getting paired with them is a matter of random chance. If you filter out all the uber-bad folks manually (a lot of effort, imo), you can stack the deck in your favor.

And to all the folks out there spouting nonsense about stomps... this doesn't make it any more likely that you'll stomp, because you have no control over the other team's composition. All it does is slightly (increasing over time) reduce the chance you'll pick up someone who spends the whole game feeding or AFK on the fountain. Or being a complete jerk the whole game in team chat.

Personally, I don't bother. I queue dodged ONCE because I played a frustrating game with a griefer and was unlucky enough to see his name during champion select during the very next game. I only keep a very short list right now of intentional feeders and intentional AFK / leavers right now, and I've been fortunate enough not to have run into them again.


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coel

Senior Member

01-12-2010

Quote:
GNOY:
I just dont get why Riot cant implement some simple decisions to vaporize queue dodging. And its not some penalties and punishments (like some ppl from inquisition order suggested). Its a simple things like banlist and replacement of queue leavers with another solo queuer.


yes


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ChocoKitten

Member

01-12-2010

replacing que dodgers with another solo queuer is a great idea GNOY. Saves tons of time for everyone already in selection.


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Aekero

Senior Member

01-12-2010

THe only time I dodge is when selection goes like this.

Warwick
Yi
Nidalee
(last guy hasn't picked, so I think to myself, I guess I should play a tank)
Right after I pick a tank, last person picks Udyr


Seriously, people who are so freakin tunnel visioned as to what hero they want to play annoy me to no end. I get that you like a champ, but be a little flexible. All melee is pretty much the only reason I'll ever leave, that team comp has no cc, no aoe, no _ranged_ no slow! (excluding exhausts/liz/mallet)

Unless your opponents are similarly selfish, or are just absolutely horrible, it's not going to be a fun game, at all.


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Constrictor

Recruiter

01-12-2010

Quote:
Vichar:
This is a decent summary. However, I would disagree that dodging is not effective.
All you have to do is write a program that records the names of people you've played with that you thought were good and very, very bad. Each time you solo queue, simply look at the names above and compare them to your 2 lists. If there are no people from your very bad list, go ahead and play. If there are people from your bad list, and nobody from your good list, dodge.


This is wrong because sometimes good players have bad games. I'm at 70% overall win rate (something like 180-110 record or so), and I've had a few facepalm games on my part. I've had far more games where I'm kicking butt/dominating.

If you got into a game with me and I had a bad game, you'd mistakenly put me on the 'bad' list.

Bottomline, no one is perfect. People may be playing a champ they are not 100% familiar with, trying a different build, etc.


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Vichar

Senior Member

01-12-2010

Quote:
Constrictor:
This is wrong because sometimes good players have bad games. I'm at 70% overall win rate (something like 180-110 record or so), and I've had a few facepalm games on my part. I've had far more games where I'm kicking butt/dominating.

If you got into a game with me and I had a bad game, you'd mistakenly put me on the 'bad' list.

Bottomline, no one is perfect. People may be playing a champ they are not 100% familiar with, trying a different build, etc.


I can tell when someone is just having a bad game and when someone is terribad.

A good player having a bad game still attempts to do the correct things and exhibits good judgment. A good player will respond in chat and attempt to work together with their team. I don't care that much about kill/death/assist ratios. I care about ability to work as a team towards winning.

A terribad player will continue to rush headlong into 5v1 regardless of what you tell them. A terribad player will continue to ignore pings and strategic direction that might win the game. A terribad player will completely ignore the principles of good team play, never plant wards, never give you a heads up that might save your life, and never help out even though he's jungling 2 meters away from a raging teamfight. At terribad player runs off into the jungle alone even after you tell them that some enemies were spotted near there. A terribad player as no idea how to estimate if he will win a fight before he commits. I could go on and on.

So, no, I don't think that it's that hard to tell the truly bad players from players that are trying to learn the game and give it some effort. Besides, I'd rather play with a player that's performing poorly than one that has a outstandingly bad attitude. This latter category is who's making it on my ignore list right now. We all have played with them: blames everyone but themselves, fills team chat will insults, AFKs on the fountain, ragequits, intentionally feeds.


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GodwinGrech

Senior Member

01-12-2010

Quote:
Vichar:
A good player having a bad game still attempts to do the correct things and exhibits good judgment. A good player will respond in chat and attempt to work together with their team. I don't care that much about kill/death/assist ratios. I care about ability to work as a team towards winning.

this. Ive been in a few games where someone will do stupid things all game but i cant yell at them because ill be 1-5-10 (as a tenk). all they do is steal a few kills and point at the scoreboard as it gives them an excuse as to why they arent bad.


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panthroq

Junior Member

01-12-2010

Quote:
Geekweezul:
Well then Clearly Mark Mcgwire should be in the Hall of Fame for all the great baseball he played while using steroids...because they weren't illegal back then.


This is probably the dumbest thing ive read on this whole thread. I dont know baseball well (because it sucks) but while steroids(cheating) are illegal, "new" steroids not listed in a banned substance list are not legal, they are still artificial enhancers.. This also has nothing to do with LOL and queue dodging bad players.


Quote:
Geekweezul:
Good. At least you'll be in practice games and not queue dodging.

Or, perhaps you could read the point of my post in that the OP'er implies that playing against bad players does not help you in anyway so he queue dodges those bad players while I argue that queue dodging pits you against those very same players you've been queue dodging. So he is not actually improving his gameplay using the standards he's set for himself.


Sorry bud but if playing a 'bad' team line up and getting crushed can improve your play then playing on the opposite end of the spectrum can also do the same. The only problem with your logic is, they DONT in both cases nothing is gained from each game. Other than gaining the knowledge that the other 4 people on your team thought it would be a great idea to queue up with no rally, no cv, and a bad team composition. This is grounds to be added to an ignore list and queue dodged for the next few weeks.

If at that point one is still in the same bracket and joining games with ignored baddie, they can get a round 2 trial with a pass/fail...

Also, I must clarify winning a game does NOT mean a person played well, a lot of games I add people to my ignore list on my winning team simply because they did (stupid things/wouldnt listen/didnt know their role(heroes function in 5v5)) and in the process almost caused a loss..

Finally, most of you people have no concept of theory, no concept of critical thinking... quit dealing in ABSOLUTES, nothing in this game is concrete.. Just because you have a single number in your name does not mean the OP thinks you are brain dead... just because you say hello in pregame chat does not mean the OP thinks you have no friends.. Honestly think, the only way to address a large audience(such as a forum) is to broaden your views, aka generalize... Most of the time they are over generalizing to prove a point.. the fact that most of you take everything completely literal show how short sighted you are.

Queue dodging is a symptom of larger problems such as individualism in a TEAM game, large ELO brackets, over compensation to provide short queue times, and simply LACK of 5v5 premade experience.. Playing 5v5 premade games with a group of people one may find that rally is a necessity, good team composition is imperitive, control of neutral creatures is next to required.. people that dont do this will never learn in a short 20-30m game.. it is next to impossible to teach these things so quickly..

which is why queue dodging exists.. a poor champ select is the first indicator you are grouped with people that DO NOT understand 5v5 mechanics..

what the OP was trying to show is GENERALLY, (added to be PC for ******s, that means there are exceptions!) people that fall into this category, also may do some or all of the things he listed..