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Veigar's restricted cooldowns are holding him back

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iDarkside

Senior Member

05-15-2014

Veigar is a champion that is supposed to excel as an anti-mage. However the only mage that he MIGHT be able to counter is Karthus. The reasoning is that while Veigar has decent clear with his W, the difficulty of landing the ability coupled with the insane base cooldown is so restrictive he always gets pushed to tower.

Veigar's W has a 1.2 second cast time on a 10 second cooldown. The base damage is 120 / 170 / 220 / 270 / 320 (+ 100% AP. That is pretty good, but considering the difficulty of the move it needs to be this high.

Let's contrast this with Ziggs Q. Ziggs Q does 75 / 120 / 165 / 210 / 255 (+ 65% AP) but the cooldown goes from 6 seconds to 4 seconds. The ability is also considerably easier to use. This means Ziggs at level four can now get off 2.5 Q's per every one Veigar W.

This is the problem. He has no reliable way to stop from getting pushed to tower, poked and dove. Max out your Q get pushed, poked and dove. Max out W get pushed, poked and dove.

My solution

Lower the cooldown on Veigar's W to allow him to compete in the current push or get dove meta. Make it a sliding scale of 10/9/8/7/6. The damage is fine but a change to the cooldown would do wonders to enabling Veigar as a competitive pick and allowing him to do his job as an anti-mage.


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Satellier

Senior Member

05-15-2014

Veigar's CDs are meant to hold him back, note the large AP bonus from passives.
His job is to burst down a squishy ADC or caster on the enemy team then GTFO.


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iDarkside

Senior Member

05-15-2014

Quote:
Satellier:
Veigar's CDs are meant to hold him back, note the large AP bonus from passives.
His job is to burst down a squishy ADC or caster on the enemy team then GTFO.


Which he can't do at the moment since his early game is SO bad. Seriously, play a few games as Veigar. You'll get pushed to tower ~90% of the time. Then the enemy mid will poke and then the jungler will dive. It's gotten to the point where Veigar is near unplayable.


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Satellier

Senior Member

05-15-2014

Quote:
iDarkside:
Which he can't do at the moment since his early game is SO bad. Seriously, play a few games as Veigar. You'll get pushed to tower ~90% of the time. Then the enemy mid will poke and then the jungler will dive. It's gotten to the point where Veigar is near unplayable.


He doesn't have the best wave clear early, but his stun should easily save you from any dives. If their mid is poking too much, play aggressive. You will do more damage in a trade, and a well landed stun means you take none in return. Just make sure you have mid warded to avoid being ganked when you go in, which is true for any mid. Not to mention if the enemy mid is an AP you are basically guaranteed a kill at 6. Also veigar is easily countered by any AD champ, never pick him before the enemy has picked their mid.


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Axe2Handle

Member

05-15-2014

So you want Veiger to have early game pressure AND be able to insta delete champs late game?


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iDarkside

Senior Member

05-15-2014

Quote:
Satellier:
He doesn't have the best wave clear early, but his stun should easily save you from any dives. If their mid is poking too much, play aggressive. You will do more damage in a trade, and a well landed stun means you take none in return. Just make sure you have mid warded to avoid being ganked when you go in, which is true for any mid. Not to mention if the enemy mid is an AP you are basically guaranteed a kill at 6. Also veigar is easily countered by any AD champ, never pick him before the enemy has picked their mid.


Look I'm not an idiot okay, I know he's countered by ad mids. However his range, early game damage, and mana costs are not in his favor to win a trade. One combo yields minor damage to him while exhausting your mana pool early. Honestly, if you can find me a champion that is normally played mid that Veigar can out trade with currently let me know, because I have played a lot of Veigar and its just not true.


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Flipsy

Senior Member

05-15-2014

Quote:
iDarkside:
Look I'm not an idiot okay


Anyone who frequents this subforum knows you are, don't kid yourself. Just because you haven't made a thread in a couple weeks doesn't mean you've magically reacquired the credibility as a League player that was lost with these threads:

http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=4398615
http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=4440649
http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=4438906
http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=4434425
http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=4434425
http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=4432872
http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=4428175
http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=4499396
http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=4443274

You want to boost your early game with Veigar? Stop maxing damage output. Level Event Horizon (his E) more than 1 rank out. Hell, when I play him, I max it first, because 2.5 second stun is amazing. Since Veigar is late-game anyway, land your Q on minions (it's akin to last hitting, which you should be able to do anyway). People will always walk out of your E before your W lands, as it has a 1.8 second casting time, you'd need to either lead their retreat with the W cast, or have a stun longer than the cast of Dark Matter.


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iDarkside

Senior Member

05-15-2014

Quote:
Axe2Handle:
So you want Veiger to have early game pressure AND be able to insta delete champs late game?


Right now he does neither.


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TANNON

Senior Member

05-15-2014

Veigar is supposed to have long cooldowns due to how strong his ratios and infinite scaling are, and unlike most pure damage mages/assassins he actually has large-radius, hard CC.

I completely disagree with you, again.


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iDarkside

Senior Member

05-15-2014

Quote:
Flipsy:
Anyone who frequents this subforum knows you are, don't kid yourself. Just because you haven't made a thread in a couple weeks doesn't mean you've magically reacquired the credibility




Fine **** i'll go back to ****ing ****ty threads again, since every time I actually try to make a post this ****ty community just acts like the comlete ******* trash scum they are. 45% win rate, yeah he's real ****ing fine.


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