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told my friend i got to gold 3

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Budlyte

Senior Member

05-15-2014

Quote:
JustMyBassCannon:
Three of Lee Sin's spells deal 0 damage and are mostly defensive in purpose.

I find it amusing how frequently people will complain about Lee Sin's "OP damage" while completely ignoring that nearly half of his kit does not deal damage.

1 of those spells is complete damage mitigation, and the other side of it grants a heal while shielded.
The other one is a complete speed debuff, see below.


Quote:
JustMyBassCannon:
Talon's Q also applies his total AD--it's an attack modifier. It would just be extremely complex to write 30/60/90/120/150 + 100% Total AD + 30% Bonus AD so they assume you're not retarded and leave the fact that it's an attack modifier out of the tooltip

Talon's E was not designed to keep him alive, it was designed to kill his target before they can respond. Lee Sin can't use his W to directly jump to an opponent; he has to hope that they're stupid enough to let his Q land first. Or he has to jump to something near them, which most of the time won't be an allied champion, thus losing the shield and doubling the cooldown.

Talon's W deals more damage than Lee Sin's E unless they somehow get out of it early (i.e. Flash), and the MS slow doesn't decay. In exchange for spending energy on a move that literally does nothing but slow, it has a stronger base slow, slows AS and lasts slightly longer.

Talon's R deals potentially 240/340/440 + 180% bonus AD per enemy in a much wider AoE than Lee Sin. It happens faster than Lee Sin. It gives him invisibility, allowing him to reposition without drawing focus. And it has a lower base cooldown by 15/10/5 seconds.

Most importantly, you're comparing a Fighter/Assassin with an Assassin/Fighter. Whereas Lee Sin has to take a good portion of time to deal high damage, Talon does it within a second.


Nope. Lee Sin's still OP


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XxXDarkSideXxX

Senior Member

05-15-2014

Was The Whole Point Of The OP So You Could Make That ****y Poem?


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JustMyBassCannon

Recruiter

05-15-2014

Quote:
Budlyte:
1 of those spells is complete damage mitigation,

If you either have a convenient target champion ally OR don't use the gap closing/escaping portion of it
Quote:
Budlyte:
and the other side of it grants a heal while shielded.

It grants Lifesteal, which requires him to attack enemies to make use of it. A heal while shielded is Karma's E-R-W combo, and she's able to keep her enemy at arm's length with that. Lee Sin has to be on top of whatever he's shielding himself from to benefit from the Lifesteal.
Quote:
Budlyte:
The other one is a complete speed debuff, see below.

A debuff...that does no damage and requires him to land a short-range spell in order to actually use it.
Quote:
Budlyte:
Nope. Lee Sin's still OP

Can't even defend your argument


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Budlyte

Senior Member

05-15-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Budlyte View Post
1 of those spells is complete damage mitigation,
If you either have a convenient target champion ally OR don't use the gap closing/escaping portion of it
Quote:
Originally Posted by Budlyte View Post
and the other side of it grants a heal while shielded.
It grants Lifesteal, which requires him to attack enemies to make use of it. A heal while shielded is Karma's E-R-W combo, and she's able to keep her enemy at arm's length with that. Lee Sin has to be on top of whatever he's shielding himself from to benefit from the Lifesteal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Budlyte View Post
The other one is a complete speed debuff, see below.
A debuff...that does no damage and requires him to land a short-range spell in order to actually use it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Budlyte View Post
Nope. Lee Sin's still OP
Can't even defend your argument

Website's broken, anyway:

so, the damage mitigation is there. yes, it's melee, lee is a melee champ.
Why are you comparing a melee champ to a ranged mage/support?

His speed debuff affects those within close proximity to him. Again, he's melee AND he has two mobility moves that aren't even skill shots.

Yep, this isn't a defensive argument at all. Lee Sin's still OP though.


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JustMyBassCannon

Recruiter

05-15-2014

It's called a quote tag, (quote)(/quote) except with [] instead of ().

Quote:
Budlyte:
so, the damage mitigation is there. yes, it's melee, lee is a melee champ.

The point was that you have to give up one part for another. Either you only get the shield, you only get the mobility, or you need an ally endangering their own life so you can initiate with the shield.

You don't get all benefit, zero risk anymore; that's the point of what I was saying.
Quote:
Budlyte:
Why are you comparing a melee champ to a ranged mage/support?

Because I'm not comparing the champions' strengths, I'm showing the difference between having a shield and heal on the same champion, and having a shield and sustain. Can you name a melee champion who has a shield and a direct self-heal? The closest I can get is Kayle.
Quote:
Budlyte:
His speed debuff affects those within close proximity to him. Again, he's melee AND he has two mobility moves that aren't even skill shots.

One of them is totally reliant on a skill shot, and the other has drawbacks if you use it purely for the mobility.
Quote:
Budlyte:
Yep, this isn't a defensive argument at all. Lee Sin's still OP though.

Whatever, you witless moron. So long as you keep calling a sub-48% winrate champ OP, you're not going to sound like you know what you're talking about.

You did know that, right? Lee Sin has not had a 50% win rate for several months now, while staying above 10% play rate.


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bumbertyr

Senior Member

05-16-2014

Quote:
XxXDarkSideXxX:
Was The Whole Point Of The OP So You Could Make That ****y Poem?


no, it popped into my head so i added it in, i didn't put much thought into it.


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Splougy

Senior Member

05-16-2014

Quote:
XxXDarkSideXxX:
Was The Whole Point Of The OP So You Could Make That ****y Poem?


That poem was pretty good, and who are you to judge how someone makes a post asking a simple question about how to counter Lee in a semi-creative manner when you come here and provide nothing but butchered english, petty insults, and a lack of understanding of the community at large...

Yes... the OP has been hysterical in the past and portrayed himself as an idiot (See Rengar Petition) but Lee Is powerful early game.

Inate tankyness so he builds damage while being durable, a use for those no damage abilities. Also he is extremely mobile with clutch escapes just for having a ward.

As for counter play: Team work usually works best along with gap closer's to catch him threw walls.

Quote:
JustMyBassCannon:
You did know that, right? Lee Sin has not had a 50% win rate for several months now, while staying above 10% play rate.


Winrates mean very little


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