Tryndamere needs a rework, so here are some ideas for one

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vfactor95

Senior Member

05-12-2014

As a resource, Tryndamere's rage doesn't make much sense when looking at it from a thematic and design perspective.

Ideally, it should be a resource that needs to actually be managed, with tradeoffs for both building up and holding onto rage and for using it up.

Right now it just gives passive crit and sustain from his q (which becomes somewhat inconsequential as the game progresses due to lifesteal)

The main changes I think would be good are how his abilities interact with his passive.

For starters, the main change goes to his ultimate. Instead of gaining fury upon ultimate use, activating it should start to rapidly drain Tryndamere's fury at a rate that increases over time.

What this change does is reward Tryndamere players for actually fighting in melee range and fighting things out instead of using it as a "trololo you can't kill me" split pushing tool. This would also reward players for kiting tryndamere as his ultimate will run out quicker if he isn't attacking anyone (and therefore not generating fury).

I couldn't give exact numbers, but the duration would look something like:

1 second - 0 Starting Fury but don't attack anything
3 seconds - 100 Starting Fury but don't attack anything
5 seconds - 0 Starting Fury and you are constantly autoattacking (w/ full build)
7 seconds - 100 Starting Fury and you are constantly autoattacking

These numbers are probably really dumb in some way (I haven't given a lot of thought to them) but this is just to give an idea of how the ult pans out.

A skillful tryndamere can always use it to avoid getting blown up by burst damage but has to manage fury properly and commit to fights in order to keep a lengthy duration.

Of course this now leaves his Q in a rather ****ty position. Which honestly it should because honestly all it's good for right now is making his lane phase not **** and preventing ignites from killing him. So I think it'd be a good idea to shift the focus away from the heal compenent, to the steriod compenent.

Using up all your fury on this version of tryndamere is a pretty big cost, so he needs to have incentive in order to do so. I propose that he gets a buff that boosts his tenacity for a duration depending on the fury consumed, scaling from something like .5 seconds up to 4 seconds with the %reduction at max rank maybe being something like 25%. It would also increase the bonus AD from it's passive by 50% for the duration

Why? Why would you give tryndamere tenacity and more AD vfactor? Are you insane? Well maybe I am, but hear me out. As Riot has stated before, they like clear tradeoffs to be had when using abilities. Using Q is fairy risky, so in order to compensate we increase his ability to generate fury (tenacity means it's harder to kite him which means more autoattacks). This also introduces more decision making into a champions that is right now a mindless right clicking split push bot.

Finally, his W. I'm not gonna lie I think this is a really dumb ability. Even moreso than something like Yasuo's windwall (inb4 downvotes). This is literally one of the strongest slows in the game with a high duration THAT DOESN'T DECAY. I mean really Riot? Oh not to mention it decreases the enemies AD by 80 as if his dueling potential wasn't good enough already.

I'm getting lazy as I'm typing this out so I don't want to change it up too much. Basically, I think that the AD reduction should be only applied if the opponent is facing tryndamere. Furthermore, the duration increases proportional to the amount of fury tryndamere has with it being the original 4 seconds at 100 fury.

The purpose of these changes is twofold. First of all the AD reduction should really only be applied on a champion that is intending to duel tryndamere, it really makes no sense that someone trying to run away also now has even less of a chance of dueling him. Also it's way to strong as an AOE debuff in its current state.

The other change is intended to make it more useful as a tool for tryndamere to stick to opponents with, not as an initiation tool. He's already got spinning slash, and (usually) Botrk active for that. No sense in giving a melee ad carry a bat**** strong initiation tool.

Finally I'm leaving his E alone because it's fine and also because I'm kinda lazy and have a final to take in about 2 hours (procrastination OP).

Any thoughts/comments/input would be greatly appreciated. I'm not expecting this to be anything good, but I feel is a good idea to start as a direction with which to take Tryndamere in to create healthier gameplay for him in the League.

tl;dr Trynd needs rework, here are some ideas, Rito plz tell me you have plans for this champion


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vfactor95

Senior Member

05-12-2014

bump


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Rackier

Member

05-12-2014

the mechanics you want to add to tryn should never be added to a melee that doesn't have cc immunity


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vfactor95

Senior Member

05-12-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rackier View Post
the mechanics you want to add to tryn should never be added to a melee that doesn't have cc immunity
Can you be specific? I think we can all agree that Tryndamere's design isn't the best so it'd be nice to have a discussion about how to fix him


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currycutty

Senior Member

05-12-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by vfactor95 View Post
As a resource, Tryndamere's rage doesn't make much sense when looking at it from a thematic and design perspective.

Ideally, it should be a resource that needs to actually be managed, with tradeoffs for both building up and holding onto rage and for using it up.

Right now it just gives passive crit and sustain from his q (which becomes somewhat inconsequential as the game progresses due to lifesteal)

The main changes I think would be good are how his abilities interact with his passive.

For starters, the main change goes to his ultimate. Instead of gaining fury upon ultimate use, activating it should start to rapidly drain Tryndamere's fury at a rate that increases over time.

What this change does is reward Tryndamere players for actually fighting in melee range and fighting things out instead of using it as a "trololo you can't kill me" split pushing tool. This would also reward players for kiting tryndamere as his ultimate will run out quicker if he isn't attacking anyone (and therefore not generating fury).

I couldn't give exact numbers, but the duration would look something like:

1 second - 0 Starting Fury but don't attack anything
3 seconds - 100 Starting Fury but don't attack anything
5 seconds - 0 Starting Fury and you are constantly autoattacking (w/ full build)
7 seconds - 100 Starting Fury and you are constantly autoattacking

These numbers are probably really dumb in some way (I haven't given a lot of thought to them) but this is just to give an idea of how the ult pans out.

A skillful tryndamere can always use it to avoid getting blown up by burst damage but has to manage fury properly and commit to fights in order to keep a lengthy duration.

Of course this now leaves his Q in a rather ****ty position. Which honestly it should because honestly all it's good for right now is making his lane phase not **** and preventing ignites from killing him. So I think it'd be a good idea to shift the focus away from the heal compenent, to the steriod compenent.

Using up all your fury on this version of tryndamere is a pretty big cost, so he needs to have incentive in order to do so. I propose that he gets a buff that boosts his tenacity for a duration depending on the fury consumed, scaling from something like .5 seconds up to 4 seconds with the %reduction at max rank maybe being something like 25%. It would also increase the bonus AD from it's passive by 50% for the duration

Why? Why would you give tryndamere tenacity and more AD vfactor? Are you insane? Well maybe I am, but hear me out. As Riot has stated before, they like clear tradeoffs to be had when using abilities. Using Q is fairy risky, so in order to compensate we increase his ability to generate fury (tenacity means it's harder to kite him which means more autoattacks). This also introduces more decision making into a champions that is right now a mindless right clicking split push bot.

Finally, his W. I'm not gonna lie I think this is a really dumb ability. Even moreso than something like Yasuo's windwall (inb4 downvotes). This is literally one of the strongest slows in the game with a high duration THAT DOESN'T DECAY. I mean really Riot? Oh not to mention it decreases the enemies AD by 80 as if his dueling potential wasn't good enough already.

I'm getting lazy as I'm typing this out so I don't want to change it up too much. Basically, I think that the AD reduction should be only applied if the opponent is facing tryndamere. Furthermore, the duration increases proportional to the amount of fury tryndamere has with it being the original 4 seconds at 100 fury.

The purpose of these changes is twofold. First of all the AD reduction should really only be applied on a champion that is intending to duel tryndamere, it really makes no sense that someone trying to run away also now has even less of a chance of dueling him. Also it's way to strong as an AOE debuff in its current state.

The other change is intended to make it more useful as a tool for tryndamere to stick to opponents with, not as an initiation tool. He's already got spinning slash, and (usually) Botrk active for that. No sense in giving a melee ad carry a bat**** strong initiation tool.

Finally I'm leaving his E alone because it's fine and also because I'm kinda lazy and have a final to take in about 2 hours (procrastination OP).

Any thoughts/comments/input would be greatly appreciated. I'm not expecting this to be anything good, but I feel is a good idea to start as a direction with which to take Tryndamere in to create healthier gameplay for him in the League.

tl;dr Trynd needs rework, here are some ideas, Rito plz tell me you have plans for this champion

orly is that what u think w should do?


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vfactor95

Senior Member

05-12-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by currycutty View Post
orly is that what u think w should do?
...yes? Right now it applies regardless of which direction the champion is facing. If I'm suggesting something heretical please do elaborate


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IAintDarius

Senior Member

05-12-2014

I like tryndamere the way he is.


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vfactor95

Senior Member

05-12-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by IAintDarius View Post
I like tryndamere the way he is.
You really don't think his design is toxic to the game at all?


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StealWolverine

Senior Member

05-14-2014

Not a rework just gutting
W is a huge nerf.
Q change means 0 sustain so way worse early the tenacity hardly matters since if you use it befor you ult you wont have much time on your ult or you have to rebuild fury and won't have any time using the tenacity it also really doesn't matter since that 25] tenacity won't save him if it was a passive even as any kind of slow should be enough tio just walk away abd have his ult run out if used after the spin
Ult is also a nerf. Takes away the fury granted and makes his ult shorter anytime other than activating it in a 1v1 melee fight with no cc involved.(so a small percent of the time.)
It also decreases his dps during ult since his crit chance quickly drops


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Amoralism

Senior Member

05-14-2014

Yeah thats just a huge nerf. If you change his ult like that, his Q,W, or E needs a huge buff.


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