Counter-Picks, Team Strats, and Team Comps

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nicosharp

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Senior Member

01-14-2011

Okay, I want this to be a flowing guide of sorts that touches on many things:

#1 Counter-Picks

Anivia : You pick Kassadin - Can circumvent her wall, aoe and stun, and can burst her down.

Kassadin : You pick sturdy CC or Silence (popular choices would be - Sion, Cho'gath, Taric - They can survive Kassadin's initial burst, and can stun or silence him so he cant teleport away.

Pantheon : Counter with Rammus, Malphite or Gragas - HP to survive his early burst, and tankiness. They can also do magic damage back that circumvents his passive shield.

Eve : Counter with Sion, Taric - and lean on having tank solo lanes over squishy lanes - have a ranged carry if needed with a lane babysitter with stun+shield. Also early game counter-jungle if possible (Nunu potentially - strongest jungle choice for his ability to self-sustain, and warwick - you do not want a weak jungler hp-wise vs. Eve or Twitch)

Rammus : Counter with AP spam - Anivia or Vladimir, also tanks that can get in the way. Mobility champs that can tank are good against rammus - Singed is a very good example. Irelia is also very good against Rammus as is Olaf for True Damage.

Sivir : Gangplank, Gragas, Miss Fortune - These champions all have unique abilities vs. Sivir - MF can early game harras her fairly easily, Gragas can bait spell shields and quickly wipe a creepwave to prevent her from pushing, Gangplank can deny her from leveling quickly, and is pretty strong counter to her late game with his abilities.

Corki : Malphite/Rammus/Shen - Taunt and snare work well as well as tanking the initial burst Corki can spit out. Assassins are also fairly effective like Akali and Kassadin

Malphite : Gragas, Malzahar, Nunu, Singed, Kog - Anti-tank abilities and aoe laning tanks and strong snare bots are good picks vs malphite, who typically builds armor over magic resist.

Vladimir : Kassadin, Garen, Mundo, Malzahar, Ignite - Silence is very effective against Vladimir's spam. Often times better than hard CC, as Vladimir player will generally fumble while trying to cast silenced skills. Ignite is also great, and the above champs are good at pool baiting vladimir, and finishing him off.

Warwick : Nunu - Nunu is a faster jungler than warwick, and can effectively counter jungle vs. a warwick early game. Late game generally a warwick player is stronger 1v1, but Nunu provides more team support as the game advances.

They pick: Kog'Maw
You pick: Pantheon
Why: It may seem weird but Pantheon has just what the dr. ordered to deal with Kog - a passive to block a shot, a ranged stun to close in, and a nice ranged harass.

They pick: Miss Fortune
You pick: Kassadin or Gragas
Why: I've been the victim of this counter-pick - Kassadin just needs to play safe until lvl 6, and unleash the beast. He can typically burst down MF unless she has support or is baiting him with a red pot. or Gragas can outrange her, and then poke in with bodyslam

They pick: Sona
You pick: Janna
Why: This is fairly intuitive - counter strong support with strong support. You definitely do not want to be passing both supports to the opposing team. Janna has a knockup a shield and a slow that can all help control Sona from being the kiting damage dealing healing faceroller she is

They pick: Galio
You pick: Morgana
Why: This is not very intuitive, as Galio is very strong vs AP champs like Morg, but Morg can shield a carry when a teamfight begins to help that carry survive vs galio's burst/ult. Morg can also help even out galio's power with her own ult.

They pick: Master Yi
You pick: Rammus/Shen
Why: Yi is well known for just bursting down champions, and also steamrolling down towers/backdooring. Being able to tower taunt a Yi, and protect your teammates from being focused are very important, second to some strong stun. Of course he can always just cleanse :*(

They pick: Twitch
You pick: Gragas or Alistar
Why: Gragas can mitigate a ton of damage, and can also create anti-aoe zones when Twitch decides to ult. He is a good individual to carry a oracle on, and can bodyslam harass twitch if playing a tank. if he goes ap, he also should have enough burst. Until flash is removed, Alistar is another fairly solid pick.

They pick: Heimerdinger
You pick: Nunu or Xin Zhao or Akali or Eve
Why: 1 can destroy turrets on demand, and the other 3 can burst him down in seconds after jumping to him. Kassadin or Leblanc would be other strong picks given their silence, or even Fiddlesticks or Malazahar.

(I will expand this list as I get to it)

#2 Team Comps

a) CC stack with burst - This strat typically consists of champions like Ashe/Sion/Warwick/Taric/Annie/Anivia/Pantheon/Alistar/etc. You want heavy CC with preferrably ranged CC initiation. This is particularly useful if you can split up champions and burst them down individually using your CC. This is more difficult against AOE teams with good support that engage battle as a team, and build a tank with strong MR resist.

b) Aoe Burst Comp. - This typically consists of champions that can do a large amount of AOE (Area of Effect) damage in a short amount of time, to get 1 or more kills on a enemy team once a teamfight starts. Popular champions for this comp would be Morgana/Vladimir/Nunu/Fiddlesticks/Galio/Amumu/Gangplank/Annie/etc. This comp has more challenges against Assassin plus Tank split comps, and split pushing comps, as a lot of there power is in fighting 5v5.

c) The split Push Backdoor Comp - This typically involves a champion like Twisted Fate/Shen/Pantheon/Master Yi/Nidalee/Sivir/Kayle/Alistar/Singed - Champions that are very good at pushing lanes, and or champions with Global ults are strong mobility to take out towers. This team strat can be countered by strong CC orientated comps, that also account for mobility (either in champions or by using teleports), also by playing very safe and keeping lanes pushed.

d) Support the Carry comp - This may be the more typical comp seen in higher level solo ranked and 5s play. This consists of 1 or 2 very strong carries, with 2-3 solid support champions backing them up. A good example would be: Sivir as the Carry, with Janna/Alistar/Nunu as support, and a AP carry like Sion or something. This type of comp is harder to counter as it is more based around positioning in a teamfight, and trying to get down the carry being supported as soon as possible. The best way to counter this comp is to play as strongly as you can in the early game to starve the carries farm, and to gank that carry, also go out of your way to avoid being ganked or last hit by the carry. They are only as strong as their gold farm.

#3 Team Strats

a) Banning strong counters to your desired comp. Are you planning to pick up Anivia at all costs? Perhaps your two bans should be Kassadin and Rammus?

b) Counter-picking throughout champion select. This is not very common yet, but good teams and players will base their entire team-comp on the enemies picks.

c) Level 1 game-plan. Some people design and pick their team entirely based upon their lvl 1 strengths and devise a plan to control the map early or get early kills.

d) Summoner skills to support team. This is often discussed and modified for a team based on your opposing champions. Do you need 1 or more Exhausts, and do you have a Clairvoyance?.. Do you need ignite to counter Mundo/Warwick/Vlad? Teleport to handle TF? as examples.

e) Ward duty, who is on it, and where do you need them? Map awareness is important, but some comps need wards in more specific spots to be more effective.

f) Identifying an Off-tank and Initiator. Often times people do not have a very strong tank to initiate, and that is a mistake. There are some off-tanks that are great and stirring the pot once initiation happens, but are not the best to lead the charge. Examples of initiators: Shen/Singed/Rammus ; Examples of off-tanks: Alistar/Gragas/Sion - Off-tanks typically build for more damage but bring the CC the team needs to really get team fights going. Initiators just take the initial poke.


That is all for now, more to come!


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Shikouzu

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Senior Member

01-14-2011

I found this very informative. Thank you


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NerdyDan

Senior Member

01-14-2011

i like this


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EasymodeX

Senior Member

01-14-2011

Quote:
Pantheon : Counter with Rammus, Malphite or Gragas - HP to survive his early burst, and tankiness. They can also do magic damage back that circumvents his passive shield.
Pantheon's true midgame threat comes from his global presence. I would suggest a Shen/TF, maybe GP on the list of counter picks. One game, I was TF against a Panth, and anywhere that he jumped (within reason), I'd gate on his ass and GC him out of his combo. It was pretty funny and turned him into a regular joe melee DPS.

Quote:
Vladimir : Kassadin, Garen, Mundo, Malzahar, Ignite - Silence is very effective against Vladimir's spam. Often times better than hard CC, as Vladimir player will generally fumble while trying to cast silenced skills. Ignite is also great, and the above champs are good at pool baiting vladimir, and finishing him off.
For laning, any champ with a heal debuff. Tristana and Katarina would come to mind. Also, Kennen deserves a mention for his massive punishment if Vlad attempts to harass with Q. On top of that, Kennen can counter-initiate over Vlad's ult, minimizing its impact and offering its own damage/stun spam.

Quote:
They pick: Miss Fortune
You pick: Kassadin or Gragas
Also champions with auto-reflect capabilities or auto-hit abilities that put MF into combat, breaking her strut. Those particular 2 will hard counter her, but many champs will soft counter her in really annoying ways. Champs like Nasus or Morg can wipe strut at will, Sivir will RNG it down with Ricochet.

Also special mention for Randuin's. The Warden's Mail alone messes up MF pretty badly -- any Double Up bounce, or actual autoattack will proc the slow and cause MF to lose strut. High likelihood of breaking any positioning MF attempts to exploit.


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Slooops

Junior Member

01-14-2011

Agreed, this was a well thought out thread with useful information.


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EasymodeX

Senior Member

01-14-2011

Blitzcrank counters Galio pretty hard. His fist will virtually auto-break Galio's ult. His silence will pre-empt it, and his grab will move Galio's ult out of position. It's virtually guaranteed that Galio's ult will have a minimal impact and be mis-timed if Blitzcrank is in the same area and has a functioning brain.

Note: same is true for Blitz's effect on Nunu's mid-late game.


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Ballcoozy

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Senior Member

01-14-2011

Add singed for split backdoor.

Cho'gath is great jungler vs. eve.


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Ballcoozy

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01-14-2011

Any advice for counter jungling?

A few jungle champs can be messed up pretty hard with wards and or stealing blue buff (eve, udyr, mummy).

Also any thoughts on countering Zilean?


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nicosharp

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Senior Member

01-14-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ballcoozy View Post
Any advice for counter jungling?

A few jungle champs can be messed up pretty hard with wards and or stealing blue buff (eve, udyr, mummy).

Also any thoughts on countering Zilean?
Counter Jungling is not a safe method for any team game. Basically it already requires you as a player and your team in-general to be exceptionally better players. Being able to roam into the other teams jungle takes very keen map awareness, timing and a champion that can pull it off. Some better champs for this would be individuals like Gragas/Twitch/Eve/Nunu/Tryndamere/Yi/Rammus Mobile champs with escapes or stealth champs.

Zilean can be countered by Kassadin/Akali/Yi/Xin Zhao You generally want an assassin champion to deal with Zilean. You need some kind of burst and the ability to jump to him. In that regard, silence is also very strong - Soraka, and Garen and Malzahar can help.


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hydrogencar

Senior Member

01-14-2011

This is really bad. Why do you make a topic for this, instead of keeping this for yourself? I'm just having this weird idea of people seeing champion xyz at champ selection and then quickly look at this topic, and be like: Oh, Anivia! Ima go Kassawin and rape her, even though they never played him before. Potential disaster since people actually ARE this brainless.


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