[Guide] Nasty Nidalee - Top Tier AD Build

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flankd

The Council

01-13-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by itsKarma View Post
If you want a ranged DPS char go play Ashe.

I also agree however, that building AP just for cougar stance damage output isn't the smartest thing.

Basically.

Sheen
Boots
Rylai's
Infinity
Triforce
Banshees, another Rylai's, or some sort of AD DPS item depending on the situation

The rylai's gives added health and you use it for cougar mode, not because you're trying to get a slow off of javelin. I find that nidalee's ranged autoattack is so short that it might as well be melee, and you might as well play ashe or yi. If your team is kicking ass then go ahead and use the autoattack to help focus fire, but other than that go with cougar form. Definitely get cleanse to pounce out and go back in human form after your triple combo to continue using your spears if you get cc'd.

On the other hand, has the council tried playing udyr? He's pretty decent now. All he needs is for his bear stance stun to be a short range AoE like TF's gold card use to be and he'd be OP.
Ashe is kind of on the weak side right now for a Ranged carry, Tristanas, Corki, Nidalee are all better than Ashe atm. I've never had a game against ashe where I feared her. Nidalee eats Ashe like the cute little cupcake she is.

Udyr is good, he was good pre-patch and now hes probably above average overall. Need to try him out again.


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Gandalf 007

Senior Member

01-13-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by flankd View Post
Sigh, I don't feel like arguing... I could say the same about AD Nidalee. The point is, I feel AP is kind of waste considering her spells don't have amazing ratios. Focus fire is what wins games, AD is better for that. Fact. Not my imagination, AD is also better at taking down towers. Also not my imagination.

Either way, your total games played is drastically lower than mine which means you aren't even close to the Elo bracket I'm in, and I'm not trying to be cocky but the games we play are very different. Unless that's your smurf I have a really hard time understanding where your coming from, because in my bracket. I don't see AP Nidalee's, i've seen 1 or 2 maybe a game here or there and that's it.
As credibility goes, I have more than double wins to losses (do you?). I have won my last 23 straight games, with nidalee for 75% of these.

At level 18, I queue against FULL level 30's every single time. Despite having a mastery/rune disadvantage, with my unique aggressive playstyle and a competent lane partner, I almost always push down my lane's tower before the 8 min mark (unless against a ridic defensive lane combo like a blitz/rammus + heim, etc)

Also, more than 6 of my last 23 straight wins were in a 5man AT of all level 30s (some of which whom should show up on the next top 500), and the competetion was very fierce. People that have AT'ed with me know that I have recently developed a habit of, by midgame, saying in /all "SOMEONE GIVE ME A REAL FIGHT"

If you haven't seen me yet, it's just because I have far more time to forum post from my office than play


And, yes, of course AD Nidalee can jungle, farm and kill as good or better than me. The point is my AP Nidalee can outperform other SUPPORT champs at this, hence you calling all other supports as better than Nidalee is inaccurate.

With an AP build, I can jungle just about as effectively as my Mundo or Warwick (can solo dragon by about 8 (and be back to full health in 2 heals), can rip down golem in about 30-40 seconds at level 6 and finish at full health, and I can farm lanes faster than the best built Soraka). I also usually put up numbers more similar to a carry, because of AP Nid's still-respectable burst, and finishing power with Rylai's.


edit: also, with clarity and mana pot use I can easily allow other casters to take golem. With my aggressive mid-game play and ridiculous sustainability, I'm usually stealing the other team's golem anyway


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flankd

The Council

01-13-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf 007 View Post
As credibility goes, I have more than double wins to losses (do you?). I have won my last 23 straight games, with nidalee for 75% of these.

At level 18, I queue against FULL level 30's every single time. Despite having a mastery/rune disadvantage, with my unique aggressive playstyle and a competent lane partner, I almost always push down my lane's tower before the 8 min mark (unless against a ridic defensive lane combo like a blitz/rammus + heim, etc)

Also, more than 6 of my last 23 straight wins were in a 5man AT of all level 30s (some of which whom should show up on the next top 500), and the competetion was very fierce. People that have AT'ed with me know that I have recently developed a habit of, by midgame, saying in /all "SOMEONE GIVE ME A REAL FIGHT"

If you haven't seen me yet, it's just because I have far more time to forum post from my office than play


And, yes, of course AD Nidalee can jungle, farm and kill as good or better than me. The point is my AP Nidalee can outperform other SUPPORT champs at this, hence you calling all other supports as better than Nidalee is inaccurate.

With an AP build, I can jungle just about as effectively as my Mundo or Warwick (can solo dragon by about 8 (and be back to full health in 2 heals), can rip down golem in about 30-40 seconds at level 6 and finish at full health, and I can farm lanes faster than the best built Soraka). I also usually put up numbers more similar to a carry, because of AP Nid's still-respectable burst, and finishing power with Rylai's.


edit: also, with clarity and mana pot use I can easily allow other casters to take golem. With my aggressive mid-game play and ridiculous sustainability, I'm usually stealing the other team's golem anyway
You win, I give up.


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Gandalf 007

Senior Member

01-13-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by flankd View Post
You win, I give up.
It was never about winning or losing, just not being summarily dismissed

It's still your guide, and it's the best I've seen for AD Nidalee, which is still very viable (obviously). If you are upset by me stating my opinion, then try looking at it as me helping to ensure your guide stays on page 1?

As a suggestion......if you are still convinced that the tier difference is that severe (not sure if you were sarcastic or not with your last post), then maybe you should orient your guide towards top-tier (top 500) competition like Furor did with his Kat guide? Put "[Top 500]" in the title, put a disclaimer at the top of the post, then reference the metagame (common top 500 comps, more focus on Nidalee's role in 5man AT, etc) within the post itself.

That might help keep the non-factor scrubs like me out
.


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flankd

The Council

01-14-2010

It's not meant to be a top 500 guide, it's a guide for anybody... most top tier players don't need to read a guide to figure out how to play a champion, they can figure it out themselves after a game or two.


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The Senate

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Senior Member

01-14-2010

I do Nidalee so different then you guys it's crazy.

I've been getting magic penetration, yet not a lot of AP. Haunting Guise is usually my first full item. Though lately, it hasn't been letting me spam abilities as much as I'd like. I used to go Chalice but a couple people have ragged on me in game that 'Nidalee doesn't need Chalice'. (Bare in mind, I use Cougar more sparingly then most.)

I also take Exhaust and Ignite for my summoner spells, and make sure to always get that extra magic penetration out of my masteries. Exhaust and Pounce have wonderful synergy, and I've gotten a lot of clutch surprise kills by switching to Cougar, and closing the distance for Exhaust's cast range with Pounce. Ignite has less direct synergy, but expands her offensive capabilities.

Sheen is the most globally agreed item for Nid. I'd say Nidalee is one of the most item flexible champions in the entire game, but at the very least, everybody should be picking up Sheen at some point. Mana-free procs with Cougar form abilities? Sign me up. Not only that, but Takedown + Sheen is a very very dangerous combination.

For late game items, I've been actually skipping Trinity force to pick up Frost Mallet. The one thing I feel that Nidalee is innately lacking the most hitpoints. She's got a heal, she's got harass, she's got an interesting type of map control, she's got some natural escape tools, she's got killing power, she's got push, she's got farm. The only thing she doesn't got is a reservoir of health to get through the stickiest situations.

After Mallet, it's time to buff the ol' resistances. I've actually found myself getting Aegis. She's going to need to be taking less damage if you want to make your Takedowns work, and she fluctuates from being in the back lines of your team with the other casters, to being out in front with the tanks and melees. Another option would be Guardian Angel. Either way, as the game shifts into late, you need resistances, depending on the type of damage the other team does.

But Senate!
Without stacking AP, you lose healing support and some of your best burst damage! What is your role?

But Senate! Without physical damage, you can't effectively carry a team! What is your role?

I play Nidalee as an early/mid game powerhouse, but not as a late game carry. Once you get Haunting Guise and Sheen, before you even get Boots, you are a monster. Toss some Lizardbuff on that, and you're easily the most dangerous dynamic champion on the battlefield for at least another ten minutes.

Once you go into late game? The real physical carries take over.


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flankd

The Council

01-14-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Senate View Post
I do Nidalee so different then you guys it's crazy.

I've been getting magic penetration, yet not a lot of AP. Haunting Guise is usually my first full item. Though lately, it hasn't been letting me spam abilities as much as I'd like. I used to go Chalice but a couple people have ragged on me in game that 'Nidalee doesn't need Chalice'. (Bare in mind, I use Cougar more sparingly then most.)

I also take Exhaust and Ignite for my summoner spells, and make sure to always get that extra magic penetration out of my masteries. Exhaust and Pounce have wonderful synergy, and I've gotten a lot of clutch surprise kills by switching to Cougar, and closing the distance for Exhaust's cast range with Pounce. Ignite has less direct synergy, but expands her offensive capabilities.

Sheen is the most globally agreed item for Nid. I'd say Nidalee is one of the most item flexible champions in the entire game, but at the very least, everybody should be picking up Sheen at some point. Mana-free procs with Cougar form abilities? Sign me up. Not only that, but Takedown + Sheen is a very very dangerous combination.

For late game items, I've been actually skipping Trinity force to pick up Frost Mallet. The one thing I feel that Nidalee is innately lacking the most hitpoints. She's got a heal, she's got harass, she's got an interesting type of map control, she's got some natural escape tools, she's got killing power, she's got push, she's got farm. The only thing she doesn't got is a reservoir of health to get through the stickiest situations.

After Mallet, it's time to buff the ol' resistances. I've actually found myself getting Aegis. She's going to need to be taking less damage if you want to make your Takedowns work, and she fluctuates from being in the back lines of your team with the other casters, to being out in front with the tanks and melees. Another option would be Guardian Angel. Either way, as the game shifts into late, you need resistances, depending on the type of damage the other team does.

But Senate!
Without stacking AP, you lose healing support and some of your best burst damage! What is your role?

But Senate! Without physical damage, you can't effectively carry a team! What is your role?

I play Nidalee as an early/mid game powerhouse, but not as a late game carry. Once you get Haunting Guise and Sheen, before you even get Boots, you are a monster. Toss some Lizardbuff on that, and you're easily the most dangerous dynamic champion on the battlefield for at least another ten minutes.

Once you go into late game? The real physical carries take over.
I'll admit that I admire your different play style and your unique build, and thinking outside the box in terms of summoner spells... all in all the build you go seems like it will work, your right she really doesn't need a lot of AP but I can understand why you like the magic pen. I've rushed Frozen Mallet on her too although I didn't get trinity, I stopped at sheen and built other items (don't remember specifics)

BUT... I don't know if you just haven't had good games with her, she CAN be played like a real carry... I just want you to understand... if your team already has a lot of snares/disables she doesn't need the Frozen Mallet because as you know, she's already good at chasing people down... but yeah if theres a lack of snares/tanky front liners on your team I could totally see that build working out for ya. Props


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Isomalt

Senior Member

01-14-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by flankd View Post
You win, I give up.
I don't understand why people are coming after you so viciously. This guide is exactly what you advertised it to be.

That being said, I usually get rocked as AD, thus prefer AP for the heal survivability. But, after reading this guide, I'm going to give AD a couple more attempts. Thanks for posting this, I'll be trying it out.


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flankd

The Council

01-15-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Isomalt View Post
I don't understand why people are coming after you so viciously. This guide is exactly what you advertised it to be.

That being said, I usually get rocked as AD, thus prefer AP for the heal survivability. But, after reading this guide, I'm going to give AD a couple more attempts. Thanks for posting this, I'll be trying it out.
TBH There's no reason not to learn both play styles, that way you can play her whether you need a physical DPS or a caster DPS depending on team comp


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Gandalf 007

Senior Member

01-15-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by flankd View Post
TBH There's no reason not to learn both play styles, that way you can play her whether you need a physical DPS or a caster DPS depending on team comp

^