Guinsoo is working on Fiora

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Dryad Soraka

Senior Member

04-04-2014

GUINSOO LIVES?!?!??!

guinsoo

why did you abandon karma V_V


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Critmaster Garen

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Senior Member

04-04-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guinsoo View Post
Hi guys. I'd just like to weigh in on what some of the Fiora goals are. The main problems we see with Fiora's current kit are that thematically, she doesn't deliver on the fantasy of being a skilled duelist/fencer, and mechanically, her game presence / play pattern / role doesn't line up with being a skilled duelist/fencer.

As far as the duelist fantasy goes, at least when I think of Fiora, I expect her to be extremely mobile but not just going in, she needs to be good at dancing in, out of, around and about combat. She should be about finding weaknesses in the opponent's play and finding the proper occasion to go on the attack. She shouldn't be about running in and bursting enemies down, she should be poking them down over time.

Mechanically speaking, I'd expect a duelist type champion to be mechanically intense. I expect opportunities to use my abilities at optimal times to counter out the enemy's champion. I want to have a lot to keep track of, but with clear success cases when I do well.

At the end of the day, live Fiora is a ball of stats with some untargetability thrown in; she pushes her buttons pretty much as fast as she can without a second thought, and she's also extremely snowballey. In short, she's bland with no cool opportunities to exchange gameplay between her and her lane opponent.

Some of the current goals including switching Fiora from an assassin to a melee DPS, and moving her lane from top to mid/jungle, and adding tons of 'outplay' functionality on her kit, as well as more mobility especially in terms of being able to disengage and re-engage at optimal times.

I can't share too much of exactly what the plans are for her kit, as I'm sure it's going to change tons during development, but I'll leave this here to hopefully stir up some excitement for our favorite rapier wielder. Also bear in mind this is an early, experimental Blade Waltz, and could certainly change drastically between now and remake launch time.

I also understand it's hard to understand exactly what this sample Blade Waltz does, given the lack of context on her basic spells... but hopefully your imaginations run wild
whelp. this might be a good opportunity to give some input.

the main problem i have with fiora is her riposte active. currently, its thematically her core ability. the part of her kit, that makes her feel like a fencer. react to enemy attacks in split seconds, and parry them.

but the delivery is really underwhelming and bad. for one, it doesnt feel like parrying attacks has much impact for the skill it requires. first of all, the damage return is too small to be generally noticable. often, people will just auto attack regardless if riposte is active. they will then just continue to auto attack you since they know you cant block any more attacks for the next 6 to 11 seconds.

secondly, since the ability doesnt block on hit effects, but only the basic damage of the enemy auto attack, it doesnt actually make a difference which attack you block. there is no reason to save it so you can react to particular attacks that carry extra effects. like cc, bonus damage, or other effects. so your only option is to spam the ability off cooldown.



with her current kit, the changes i would make to it where the following:

- increase the cooldown to 10 seconds or longer at all ranks
- allow the ability to block on hit effects
- drastically decrease the cooldown on a successful riposte (1 second, maybe 2). / or allow another riposte within the next 1 or 2 seconds before it goes on cooldown. and another one if the second riposte is successful and so forth.

the idea is to create meaningful interaction with your opponent. youre able to block big hits that carry cc or other on hit effects and make you more aware of which attack you want to block.

fioras opponent can bait out the ability, to create a window for aggression. a trigger happy fiora will be punished with overall longer cooldowns on the ability.

on the other hand, a skilled fiora who can repeatedly react and block enemy attacks will be rewarded with a higher damage return and shorter cooldown on the ability, while evading otherwise devastating hits.


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Linna Excel

Senior Member

04-04-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guinsoo View Post
Some of the current goals including switching Fiora from an assassin to a melee DPS, and moving her lane from top to mid/jungle, and adding tons of 'outplay' functionality on her kit, as well as more mobility especially in terms of being able to disengage and re-engage at optimal times.
I don't see her going mid. At all. I just don't. Why would a team give up it's main source of AP for an AD champ with limited range and who dies the first time she gets CCed? Also how is my DPS supposed to be sustained if I'm always jumping out of combat? That's not sustained DPS, that's poke. You want her to be a melee poke champ. At least AD assassins bring kill potential to mid for giving up AP and making it easier on the other team to build defense.

Also how can she jungle without any skills to clear with? She already has to have a hydra true, but you'd be set back from having to get an elder lizard first.

IMO she belongs in top with a high skill floor and a high skill ceiling.


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PhoenixSlayer13

Senior Member

04-04-2014

Fiora?
Disengage?

THANK YOU BASED GUINSOO.


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Furi Kuri II

Member

04-04-2014

No Scruffy!!! ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ


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Critmaster Garen

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Senior Member

04-04-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Linna Excel View Post
I don't see her going mid. At all. I just don't. Why would a team give up it's main source of AP for an AD champ with limited range and who dies the first time she gets CCed? Also how is my DPS supposed to be sustained if I'm always jumping out of combat? That's not sustained DPS, that's poke. You want her to be a melee poke champ. At least AD assassins bring kill potential to mid for giving up AP and making it easier on the other team to build defense.

Also how can she jungle without any skills to clear with? She already has to have a hydra true, but you'd be set back from having to get an elder lizard first.

IMO she belongs in top with a high skill floor and a high skill ceiling.
apparantly its season 2 again, and we just forget that ad assassins, bruisers and melee carries (yi, fiora, yasuo) have been playing mid for quite some time now.

fiora is actually being played more successful in mid, than top right now.

mostly against squishy, skillshot reliant mages.


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Bad Luck Braum

Senior Member

04-04-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orghak Lagann View Post
Holy shit, when did Guinsoo go back to Riot?
Right? I Thought he died and fell into a ditch and morello didn't want to tell us about it.


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Stinklesnapz

Senior Member

04-04-2014

I'm so hyped for this. I long for a worzy opponent!


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exec3

Senior Member

04-04-2014

He is alive!

I like what i've read on Fiora, you guys have identified all the problem points on her kit (I LOATHE versing the free tower dive in her ult) and the direction of the ult sounds interesting. Sounds like the current Riposte roots Fiora, not a fan but I am glad work is being done to improve Riposte, it should arguably be the most memorable part of her kit thematically but atm it's fairly worthless.

With the idea of diving in and out of combat it almost sounds like she should have been given Yasuo's E lol.

Guinsoo can you say where you've been all this time? You were working on Karma then suddenly it was taken away from you and you disappeared off the face of the planet.


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Booty Poopington

Senior Member

04-04-2014

How about a fencing ability that makes her disengage and if you re activate the ability she returns to her original spot. Think Leblanc's E but in reverse?