Guinsoo is working on Fiora

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Norr1N

Senior Member

04-09-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by HuangYueYing View Post
Guinsoo, I have an idea for Fiora's passive that you may want to consider.

First of all, let's assume her Q, W, and E hold charges. (I don't know what her R will be so I'll leave that out for now). For detailed description, I'll just take Q, the rest will follow suit, just with different numbers.

At game start, Fiora's Q takes 20 seconds to build up a charge, can hold 2 maximum charges, and can be cast 1 second apart.

Fiora's passive goes like this:
Though mentally strong, Fiora usually exhausts her body throughout intense uses of her skills. With hard training, Fiora gradually overcomes her physical limits.

For every 20 CS, Fiora's skills takes 5% less time to build up charges.
For every 30 CS, Fiora's consecutive casts of the same skill takes 5% less time to cool down.
For every 40 CS, Fiora's skills can hold 1 additional charge.

So, at 240 CS, Fiora's Q takes 8 seconds to build up a charge, can hold 8 maximum charges, and can be cast 0.6 second apart.


Thoughts?
Had a similar idea to this literally one page back, so i'll take a moment to comment xP. Like the charge up idea. The passive not so much. It's not exactly efficient or reliable and I don't like the thought of having her ability's power curve determined so heavily on farm, moreso that even Nasus/Veigar (imagine how weak she'd be in ARAM, or in the jungle for that matter). Balancing nightmare with her entire kit relying so much on farm. Deny her during laning, or 2v1 which seems to be fast becoming a trend, and she'll be shut down completely with almost no chance of a comeback.


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Greenbanana

Senior Member

04-09-2014

I would Really like Fiora's Passive to be something like: After "X" amount of seconds Fiora's next 3 attacks will be at "X" attack speed. The Charge time functioning like Ashe's passive. I like Q and W as it is but I would probably adjust E to fit the kit differently. Of course keeping Fiora's ult the same.

What do you think of something like that Guinsoo?


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Zaenos

Senior Member

04-09-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowNinetails View Post
Agreed with most of what you're saying except this. The épée was generally used as the weapon of commoners to settle their little disputes like land rights or deflowering each other's daughters. These were usually "first blood" matches partially because nobody wanted to die (obviously) but more because nobody wanted to kill anyone and be "that guy" responsible for the town needing a new cobbler or baker or worse, starting a blood feud.

Fiora most definitely does not fall into this class of people. She's a noble through and through therefore her weapon of choice would be the rapier and her duels were almost always to the death unless they were sporting occasions (as in the duels her family is (in)famous for). This in mind, her fighting style shouldn't be to wound or to injure, it should be to kill with extreme efficiency and speed.
I don't mean to suggest that she fits the bill of a first blood duelist (that's why I mention it as a fault), but that épée technique still happens to more closely resemble actual dueling technique than foil or saber do. Agreed that she should be going for the quick and efficient kill.


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Sneaks7

Junior Member

04-09-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenbanana View Post
I would Really like Fiora's Passive to be something like: After "X" amount of seconds Fiora's next 3 attacks will be at "X" attack speed. The Charge time functioning like Ashe's passive. I like Q and W as it is but I would probably adjust E to fit the kit differently. Of course keeping Fiora's ult the same.

What do you think of something like that Guinsoo?

I like this idea! Although I'm not sure what they would do with the attack speed on the E...Maybe remove it?


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JustBoneBrook

Senior Member

04-10-2014

Should i feel happi or sad abot the remake?
I will see plz be a great one.

I WANT OLD KARMA BACK PLZ


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Norr1N

Senior Member

04-10-2014

Made the following after reading, analysing, posting, and pondering much on this topic...

Since Fiora will basically become manaless post-6, with it's almost non-existant cooldowns, I like the idea of a new resource (not asking for resourceless, like Renek/Shyv/Riven/Kat/Garen/Rengo/Rumble/Tryn/Yasuo). Especially considering Fiora has always been very much a melee champion without any ranged poke, waveclear, tankyness, real escape or CC. Managing what remains of her abilities is critical.

The following proposes to balance both old and new fiora kits with some minor alterations whilst very much maintaining the playstyle this rework is striving for. Includes a unique resource (placeholder name below) to support the new unified casting system. Ability focus is on duelist mechanics, not on steroid abuse/ball of stats.

===========

New Resource - "Steps", consisting of a default maximum of 5 Steps in the bar/meter
Bar generates 1 Step every 5 seconds
Basic attacks reduce this timer by 1 second (unaffected by CDR)

Passive - Duelist
Basic attacks grant 3/4/5% life steal for 4 seconds, stacking upto 5 times (max. 15/20/25%)
Q - Lunge
Dashes rapidly toward target, dealing physical damage and applying on-hit effects
Additional Q's against the same target within 2 seconds deal 10% less damage (min. 50%)

Cooldown: 0.5s | Cost: 2 Steps | Range: 600
W - Parry
Deflects the next basic attack/spell within the next 1.5s, dealing physical damage
In addition, grants 2 Steps and halves the cooldown of Parry if successful
Works against champions and large minions/monsters, not on structures

Cooldown: 12/10/8/6/4s | Cost: 1 Step
E - Feint
Passive: 5/10/15/20/25% Armor Penetration

Active: Instantly dashes toward the cursor's location, resetting autoattack timer
Attempting another Feint within 2 seconds costs an additional Step (max 2 Step cost)

Cooldown: 0.5s | Cost: 1 Step | Range: 300
R - Blade Waltz
Fiora yells out "TRANZ AMUH!", glowing red and gaining 300% movespeed (not really)
For the next 15 seconds, Steps increased to 10/15/20 and passive is granted full stacks

Cooldown: 80/60/40s | Cost: 0 Steps
===========

To summarise -

Passive - changed from hp regen to life steal whilst in combat/during ult
Q - split Q casts, and added on-hit effect to maintain carry damage after steroid removal
W - removed AD steroid, buffed parry to block spell and reward CDR/Steps for optional riposte action
E - removed AS/MS steroid for armor pen passive, active short-ranged dash with single autoattack reset
R - removed invulnerability/AOE damage, added resource-limited/controlled rapid casting for short duration

Also added cases/conditions to prevent abuse of E/Q during laning and ult respectively i.e. rapid chaining penalties. Similarly, W has been given a regular cooldown but with a CDR condition to distinguish skillful players. Existing steroids were removed entirely to avoid heavy uncounterable snowballing situations, replaced with a simple autoattack reset and armor pen (W deals physical damage now, as one of only two damage dealing skills after removal of original ult) to compliment dancing in/out of duels over attrition.

In addition, the resource bar doesn't change her playstyle in any significant way...

E.g. 5 Steps available during laning.. Q'ing twice = 4 Steps , E away = 1 Step, W/R with regular cooldowns. This functions playstyle-wise relatively the same as current Fiora in terms of casting rotations. Adjusting the bar/Step regeneration time to meet appropriate cooldown requirements would be quite simple subsequently. The new ult simply fits with this type of resource much better as it caters towards # of casts providing a more flexible variation of the original ult. Mana isn't even used during the most critical moment in the official pitched rework, so a more appropriate resource which can be managed and utilised by her whole kit would be much more befitting. Not to mention she's not exactly a mage, with her live ult removed.

In terms of counterplay, it is much easier to predict Fiora's possible actions during laning from the limited Steps available to her (not just from basic cooldowns) e.g. 2 Steps indicate she can Q once, or E once (won't allow second cast as cost doubled till 2 seconds have past) making for easier gank/trade timings. Baiting out her W successfully (or waiting till she alls in with no Steps remaining for reserved W, or needing to decide between blocking a spell or dashing even) also makes her waste damage potential. In other words, Steps will need to be managed carefully to remain En Garde. Similarly, her ult deals less damage to the same target and consumes Steps quickly if spammed (e.g. if messed up with W, would need to chain E to dodge followups, rapidly consuming Steps), consequently losing out on maximum damage output. Without invulnerability, a simple misstep can be heavily punished. To make use of her passive, she must also attack a unit several times before it becomes noticable, encouraging further zoning potential.

She still has no CC for self-peel or locking down targets, and without invulnerability, it is entirely on the player controlling her to outplay any dives or focusing during teamfights whilst managing Steps efficiently and dependant on the situation. Not spamming W every second (even during the ult) makes it's timing crucial as it may be capable of turning around a duel after it's buff to work on spells/effects. It's more satisfying when pulled off in the heat of battle, hence it's regular cooldown with CDR/Steps rewarded as it fits in thematically too with additional Steps for Parrying successfully leading into a potential Riposte action. All of the above reflects the light fighter concept, with a high skill cap utilising high-risk high-reward mechanics whilst maintaining her carry/assassination potential, albeit with more apparent vulnerabilities opening the window for more fun encounters/duels.

P.S. +9001 for parry dagger and out of combat sheathe animations. Would be cool if we could get a new battle hardened Fiora skin of some kind to go with the rework's release.


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ChaosRoulette

Junior Member

04-11-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowNinetails View Post
Agreed with most of what you're saying except this. The épée was generally used as the weapon of commoners to settle their little disputes like land rights or deflowering each other's daughters. These were usually "first blood" matches partially because nobody wanted to die (obviously) but more because nobody wanted to kill anyone and be "that guy" responsible for the town needing a new cobbler or baker or worse, starting a blood feud.

Fiora most definitely does not fall into this class of people. She's a noble through and through therefore her weapon of choice would be the rapier and her duels were almost always to the death unless they were sporting occasions (as in the duels her family is (in)famous for). This in mind, her fighting style shouldn't be to wound or to injure, it should be to kill with extreme efficiency and speed.
Partially true. The epee and dueling to blood came about when it became illegal to duel to the death. So to circumvent that the people decided to duel to first blood. Of course people still died but they upheld the spirit of the law rather than the letter. And since mostly nobles were the only ones with the time and money to dedicate to the art they were the ones doing this (since commoners had work to do.) Im not denying that her style and feel should be simple straight lines with an intent to hit as hard as possible then move away. Cause that is what fencing and dueling is.


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Dremiist

Senior Member

04-11-2014

if you remove her ultimate she won't be the same anymore

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her ultimate is the main reason i love to play fiora

it's her finishing her momentum

she's very strong at the moment and balanced not game broken just fine if you remove her ultimate how will i be able to dodge fizz karthus ultimate spank master yi ass? her ultimate is the main reason why she's viable it helps her kill champion with attackspeed steroid like yi or burst like ziggs and leblanc it also help her escape a lot of damage and tower aggro which is awesome she's strong top other than jax she can dealt with mostly anyone good against shyvana and renekton.

90% of us want fiora to stay the same anyways who asked for a remake?


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BlackAndSilver

Senior Member

04-11-2014

Please leave fiora alone. Please don't change her ultimate


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Mirage Night

Senior Member

04-11-2014

What will you do about her resource? I would like to see something unique to her.