Guinsoo is working on Fiora

First Riot Post
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Voodoo Jelly

Senior Member

04-06-2014

I apologise, Guinsoo, if you have already seen it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voodoo Jelly View Post
I am not sure if this has been posted in this thread yet, but this is a must-read for Guinsoo and anyone at Riot working on Fiora.

A serious world-class fencer posting on Reddit, giving their opinion on the feeling of Fencing and how it can apply to Fiora: http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflege..._of_view_of_a/

my apologies if this has been posted before, but if it has, consider it emphasis for how useful this should be for approaching Fiora's gameplay. :O
I posted this at the very end of page 33, in case you missed it.

Did you get a chance to read that? I am just curious to know if you've gone over the information that a real-life sword fighter has parsed specifically for helping with Fiora.

Please, if you can, would it be okay to see if this information were useful to you in a gameplay sense?

I would understand if you dismiss a lot of it for the inability to translate real swordplay into the game, but knowing you've been through this would be good for peace of mind. :x

I would love to see Fiora become relevant in the modern age of the game. Her characterization is very fun and would be nice to see at higher levels of play.

One thing I don't have a direct reference to is the issue of her animations--she slashes quite a lot with her sword, and fencers don't do any of that. Any way you could swing your political clout around to convince the animation team to do just a few tiny adjustments to her attack animations, so they would be perhaps more directly tied to real fencing?

I understand that last bit is unlikely to happen, but if you could let the animators know that her style of fighting is exacerbating her inability to deliver on her character fantasy, that would be swell. :X


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lm Krueger ml

Senior Member

04-06-2014

I'd like to say I really hope you err on the side of making her very mechanically challenging and skill based but with a massive defensive reward for it when you get it right.

Offensively speaking I like the idea that she has strong attacks, but using them will mean she's less capable of defending herself. Meaning if she attacks at the wrong moment she leaves herself very vulnerable to counter attacks.

Argh.. I just love this fantasy so much. I can't wait to see what you manage to do with it.

I really hope all the massive Fiora fans here can help work with you to keep her identity intact, I'll try my best to just help make the kit as awesome as possible from an outsiders perspective


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AntiSkillshot

Senior Member

04-06-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Veneox View Post
He is going to ruin Fiora.

She is going to be destroyed and wrecked in team fights. She is not going to have a way out like Yi, or Yasuo.

Fiora needs SOME teamfight potential and all this is doing is single target ONLY. Fiora was mainly single target with an ult that did teamfight damage.

Now she has nothing. She will be terrible in teamfights now, and this rework is un-needed.

JUST REWORK HER PASSIVE AND FIX HER W.

That it.

That's all she needs.

FIX HER PASSIVE.

Fix HER W.

And if not, If this rework goes through its a change of the champion I bought, and should be refunded the Rp and EVERY SKIN (I have them all for fiora) should also be refunded.

You are making Fiora a terrible new champ.

If this moron is trying to change an already amazing (enough) champion, Riot should compensate for the people who payed to play the real Fiora.
Calling Guinsoo, a moron? What are you on? Because, damn, you're high as a kite right now. This isn't Scruffy, this isn't going to be a failed, terrible, half-assed rework. This is going to make Fiora a god. A GOD!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guinsoo View Post
Those are all always banned in any serious match or competition. They also ban moves that give an enemy a chance to miss and a few other things. Pokemon PvP has a steady pacing based around either matching your poke's types and attack types versus the opponents and vice versa (essentially trying to always super effectively hit while resisting his attacks), or trying to stall by countering all of his threats with defenders that can slowly whittle them down. OHKOs do not fit into Pokemon at all. I'd guess Baton Pass teams are probably a lot stronger in the new gen so I guess that can be a third type of team, where at the start of the match you focus on super buffing your pokemon and then passing that buff to a super hard hitting mon that can sweep the entire enemy team, regardless of typing. But even this team has counterplay, as taking out the buff chain at any point basically wins you the match, as does getting off a Clear Smog or Haze, or priority Brave Birding it down with Talonflame, etc. Not to mention when you see his team will likely to be Baton Pass, you can just use a starting pokemon that has a buffing move of its own, so while the opponent is using some turns to buff and some turns to Baton Pass, you can just buff the whole time, and then out sweep their sweeper. It gets a little complicated if they start with a Scolipede or Blaziken (banned) because they can buff their speed every turn while Sword Dancing, but for example a Volcarona can Quiver Dance every turn to buff her dps and speed (and sp def which is admittedly useless vs a Sword Dance BP team). There's counterplay.
They're banned? Tell you how much I know about the Pokemon video game pro scene...

Also, I haven't played Pokemon beyond the 5th gen (You know, the one where Dragons were the meta)... I would be in the 6th gen (I wants me Sapphire remake. Game freak, plz) if I had a 3DS.


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BlackAndSilver

Senior Member

04-06-2014

Leave Fiora alone. Her "theme" is not even close to a good enough reason to completely scrap her. Fix her passive and W and LEAVE HER ALONE. Please.

Everybody. Go and read Fiora's lore NOW. There isn't a single mentioning of "fencer/fencing" for Fiora at ALL. She is a duelist. Duelist. Duelist. Swordsman. That's it.

Create a new fencer champion if you have to but stop trying to make Fiora something she isn't.


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Transient Eons

Senior Member

04-06-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackAndSilver View Post
Leave Fiora alone. Her "theme" is not even close to a good enough reason to completely scrap her. Fix her passive and W and LEAVE HER ALONE. Please.

Everybody. Go and read Fiora's lore NOW. There isn't a single mentioning of "fencer/fencing" for Fiora at ALL. She is a duelist. Duelist. Duelist. Swordsman. That's it.

Create a new fencer champion if you have to but stop trying to make Fiora something she isn't.
Considering that both lunge and riposte are fencing terms, she wields a rapier, and she duels...she's a fencer.

And her current kit is a disgusting ball of stats with a completely random, buggy, and powerconsuming ult that is NOT A DUELIST'S ATTACK...

This is one of the reworks that I'm looking forward to.


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Fiora All Night

Senior Member

04-06-2014

@Guinsoo

Thanks for answering my post. If you're still hanging around I was hoping to ask one more question since I've been pretty confused on it looking at your posts so far.


Stepping aside from the "fencing/duelist fantasy" for a moment, when I as a player start up a game with new Fiora...what exactly is my game plan going to be?


1. My abilities are/will be Lunge "jump in", Riposte "block", and Disengage "jump out"

2. It looks like I still have no ranged poke/last-hit capability - this forces me to get in melee range to farm and take lots of harass without being able to dish out any back and with no sustain to keep me in lane

3. Lunge looks like my only real damage spell with some conditional damage on Riposte. What do I do after I jump in? If I don't have an Attack Speed steroid anymore then I just used my damage to get in and can only use Riposte and hope they retaliate instead of backing off.

4. If pretty much everyone can out-farm Fiora and they can dodge about half of her damage by not attacking her...wouldn't that make Fiora really, really bad if enemies just ignore her and farm?

5. Would Lunge still have two casts, or does it need to be brought down to one because of the new ult?

6. Is there any incentive not to just build tanky and spam base damages when her ult is up? Evelynn is supposed to be a glass cannon burst assassin, but people have found it more efficient to just build her tanky and spam her Q. I'm strongly against Fiora becoming a tank as it is literally the opposed of the Fencer theme/fantasy - but what on her kit will scale enough for building glass cannon on her to be worth it?


As he isn't providing CC or team utility, Fiora is going to need to be good at killing targets 1v1 and would likely need to have some 1v2 capability to not be worse than her competition. But I'm just not seeing what Fiora is supposed to do pre-6 or when her ult is down. Her kit looks pretty low damage in abilities and you said you want her more ability-focused than auto-attack-reliant.

I'm worried that Fiora is going to spend most of the game being useless unless her numbers are tuned so high that she'd be completely overpowered. I have cookies if you would care to share your thoughts on what kinds of things Fiora should be doing in lane


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Knight Auditor

Senior Member

04-06-2014

Please don't change her voiceover. If anything give us a more intuitive option for changing languages so I can listen to Fiora in her native tongue?


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Omnipherious

Senior Member

04-06-2014

How about making her passive a damage amp with target selection? For the target selection, let it be like Xin Zhao's Challenge. The one she hits is the one she gets a damage amp on since it is her chosen duel target. Of course in an actual PvP match the likelihood of needing to temporarily hit someone else is there so it could be modified to be something more along the lines of "Dealing physical damage to a target twice challenges them to a Duel. Fiora ... against her Duel opponent."

Depending on what type of play pattern she ends up getting, the damage amp can be modified accordingly to fit whatever fantasy fencing in LoL is supposed to be. If she plays like Riven and needs to weave auto-attacks between spells the passive could be a guaranteed reduced strength crit if you spell -> AA. (130/140/150% instead of 200% since this would be strong pre-level 6)

Alternatively, if her play pattern is more like an assassin you could implement a passive that is more similar to Zed's Death Mark. Something like, "Successive attacks against the Duel opponent wound them. After not taking damage from Fiora for 3/4? seconds, the target succumbs to their wounds taking 15% of total damage taken (maximum of X damage stored).

If ramping damage needs counterplay then add some sort of stack and let opponents interact with it. Successful ability use on Fiora's behalf adds a stack and x amount of damage amp. Enemy avoiding damage from Fiora for x seconds and ability use on Fiora reduces stacks by 1 but cannot remove Duel. This will probably put more focus around Riposte gameplay since it'll be Fiora's way of preventing stack loss.

Just some ideas you could play with.


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ZOOKiDOOKi

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Member

04-06-2014

Just a little nitpicky point but "disengage" is an actual fencing term that describes a circular motion of the blade in an effort to get around an opponents parry, not an actual retreat or other defensive maneuver.


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XeonDev

Senior Member

04-06-2014

I kinda expected this to be a Guinsoo Rageblade thread.. Thought it's making a comeback... Nvm..