Guinsoo is working on Fiora

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The Dravening

Member

04-06-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guinsoo View Post
People don't like change. It's in our nature; if we like something we don't want it to change. But that doesn't mean it's not for the better. I'm confident we can deliver a new Fiora kit that delivers most of the same mechanics that the old one has (including the important ones like the Blade Waltz experience) but creates new gameplay and makes her actually feel like a duelist.

I prefer to focus my responses toward posts that are more constructive.
Best response
maximum professionalism


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The Dravening

Member

04-06-2014

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Originally Posted by Veneox View Post
snip
You sound more butthurt than Andy Dufresne.


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Critmaster Garen

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Senior Member

04-06-2014

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Originally Posted by Super Explosion View Post
No that's the problem. They're not 1v1 lanes, they're just lanes, nowhere in the game rules does it state you have to send exactly one champion to this one lane or you'll lose.

That just happens because the game is imbalanced, especially in the melee department-- Tanky DPS has perhaps been universally better than stuff like Fiora.

And then they counter that by powercreeping marksmen to deal with tanky dps and tanky dps to deal with marksmen and then someone says "but what about assassins" so they powercreep Kha'Zix alllll over without really solving the main issues caused by having one carry type in one laning arrangement.

I mean, I suppose they'd have to realize how high tower damage shuts down melee aggression and low tower health locks people in lane.

And that whole "we don't have sustain in this game, so you get to enjoy those ranged autoattacks and they're going to STICK".

But maybe one day you know~
actually ranged ad started the power creep.

melee was bad, ranged too strong. so they made more and more powerful melees to keep up.

mostly bruisers where successful.

then they made range ad stronger and stronger for some reason, gave them even more free stuff to fight melees, and nerfed melees at the same time. melee carries got left behind in the entire process.

its only recently, with a couple of reworks and better itemization (mainly hydra) that they managed to catch up.


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Super Explosion

Senior Member

04-06-2014

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Originally Posted by Critmaster Garen View Post
actually ranged ad started the power creep.
Perhaps indeed-- that's perhaps why I mentioned 'the problems of having one carry type', but may not have been that clear.


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Maximum Jarvan

Senior Member

04-06-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guinsoo View Post
People don't like change. It's in our nature; if we like something we don't want it to change. But that doesn't mean it's not for the better. I'm confident we can deliver a new Fiora kit that delivers most of the same mechanics that the old one has (including the important ones like the Blade Waltz experience) but creates new gameplay and makes her actually feel like a duelist.

I prefer to focus my responses toward posts that are more constructive.
And her ult is currently OP BS that the guy mentioned where the only counerplay to it exist in the form of glitches or 1v1 which she is still strong in. So either when she ults it blows up the entire team or you blow one person up every time it is off cooldown. So current Fiora is not interactive and dying to her doesn't even feel like dying to an assassin it isn't about positioing and peeling is actually impossible if she gets to ult on two targets.


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Stealthiness

Junior Member

04-06-2014

This rework sounds really cool, and I applaud Riot's efforts to make melee carries a healthy and varied class of champions. One red flag I see is that if Fiora is an AD "amazing duelist" with high mobility, she will likely be a very frustrating split pusher. The Yasuo design addressed this problem well by giving Yasuo some utility and team-dependence that would force him to work with teammates. Are there plans to do anything similar with Fiora?


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Super Explosion

Senior Member

04-06-2014

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Originally Posted by Critmaster Garen View Post
its only recently, with a couple of reworks and better itemization (mainly hydra) that they managed to catch up.
Well the thing is that hydra doesn't really do anything for melee carries at the moment-- because melee carries don't exist in League.

Hydra lets single target assassins farm faster so they can get to the 'repeat oneshotting' snowball on squishies.

That is what stuff like Fiora and Yasuo does. They're just assassins. Born from the "oh but what about assassins" part of Riot's past balance.

Instead of actually making range less of a requirement and enabling squishy melee to fight longer, they just pumped squishy melee into more and more instant-killing burst because "that's obviously fun for everyone", right?


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Kizuna

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Senior Member

04-06-2014

This new remake is already looking to be amazing just from the picture posted.

All you "Fiora mains" need to stuff it, really.

She's not a good champion.

Her best case scenarios are not particularly skillful or interesting. She just brute forces everything and snowballs when she's doing well, and feeds when she isn't.

Counterplay when she's ahead is quite difficult because of her ult, and her passive is trash.

This remake is completely necessary and looks to be amazing. I literally cannot believe the amount of salty players ACTUALLY trying to /order/ riot not to change her after there were months and months of threads asking to look at Fiora and Morello saying "yes, we intend to." and even going so far as to say he's a little embarrassed because of how often it came up and how the ball never got rolling.

Now it is, and we have this ragey niche gaggle of people complaining.

Listen, even if the champion is "ruined" for YOU, no offense, but you'll be replaced. And if the rework is good (I have zero doubt in Guinsoo) then the NEW playerbase of the NEW Fiora will be much, much larger than this current fanbase with a nasty attitude and entitlement.


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Critmaster Garen

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Senior Member

04-06-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Explosion View Post
Well the thing is that hydra doesn't really do anything for melee carries at the moment-- because melee carries don't exist in League.

Hydra lets single target assassins farm faster so they can get to the 'repeat oneshotting' snowball on squishies.

That is what stuff like Fiora and Yasuo does. They're just assassins. Born from the "oh but what about assassins" part of Riot's past balance.

Instead of actually making range less of a requirement and enabling squishy melee to fight longer, they just pumped squishy melee into more and more instant-killing burst because "that's obviously fun for everyone", right?
while fiora generally plays like an assassin at the moment, i would say yasuo and yi make pretty good melee carries at the moment.

yi has a lot of reliable damage built into his kit, and scales extremely well with attack speed. while they gave yasuo an edge over other champs by allowing him to outmaneuver them, and managing his shield.

but both of them deal high amounts of sustained damage over the course of a fight, instead of bursting single targets.


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Troy242621

Senior Member

04-06-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guinsoo View Post
People don't like change. It's in our nature; if we like something we don't want it to change. But that doesn't mean it's not for the better. I'm confident we can deliver a new Fiora kit that delivers most of the same mechanics that the old one has (including the important ones like the Blade Waltz experience) but creates new gameplay and makes her actually feel like a duelist.

I prefer to focus my responses toward posts that are more constructive.
Honestly, if she behaves more like a duelist, I think I'd like her more than I already do. I'd love to see a change to the "Grand Duelist" that lets her at least TRY to live up to that name. Also, if she DOES become a mobile duelist, wouldn't Fiora Jungle remain viable?,...Having damage and mobility is the whole reason she works in her current iteration, and unless you scrap AS entirely, she could still farm until opportunities arise.


I guess my question is, with your currently planned changes, IS jungle Fiora still decent, despite not being the focus? Also, is it still in its infancy stage, or could we expect PBE content within the next couple months?