Guinsoo is working on Fiora

First Riot Post
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

DefNotKessler

Member

04-05-2014

I like the sound of the direction you're going with Riposte as that spell has always been lacking in any sort of creativity, but I'm rather concerned about the ultimate, it doesnt look or sound ultimatety.
General steroid ultis arent particularly satisfying and this one just looks like a "press R, now hit all the buttons before your 9sec are up".


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Etonio

Senior Member

04-05-2014

As someone who thought about picking up Fiora several times but never did outside of a few games for fun, I would like to ask what kind of CD's are you looking at for her normal abilities. Also are you gonna keep her with mana? It felt alien to her almost when I was playing her.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Weazyritzstrket

Senior Member

04-05-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guinsoo View Post
This is probably an accurate point. Currently I was calling the whole spell Riposte, with two parts, Parry and Thrust. We will definitely work on the names later, not only are the mechanics placeholder but the names too.



That's an interesting consideration. But I still think mid lane works fine for her; perhaps you're right that jungle isn't where she belongs.



I think right now it feels significantly different than a steroid ult. It significantly alters your play pattern and thinking for the duration. See the points below...



About point 1: Originally I was debating how to primarily balance this implementation of Blade Waltz. There are two obvious limiting levers, duration and number of casts. The version of which I posted a screenshot is clearly more duration limited. In this iteration I was counting on the various "drawbacks" / nuances of the abilities to limit the ultimate - e.g. travel times, delays, parry times, etc. In the end with the directions we took for some of the other , and the more recent version is more moderate 8 second duration, with a limit of 4 / 6 / 8 casts (still needs tons of tuning). Also note that right now Blade Waltz doesn't provide any bonuses to how hard the skills hit, to emphasize mobility and tactics over brute force during the ultimate (obviously when casting that many spells in succession, it's going to be doing a certain amount of brute force work).

You're partially right that an ultimate that uses stronger versions of your basic skills requires a sharp tuning knife to make it feel good with and without. But in this case, I think there are some "under the hood" things that we can do to make the ultimate feel like a thing of its own. For example right now when you activate it, it resets all your cooldowns so you can start your comboing or dancing immediately, you get X number of casts chosen pretty much any way you like, and afterward it puts the cooldowns back where they were. I think this really helps make the ultimate feel like a spell all of its own. Additionally, the more potent the "spell modifications" that Blade Waltz offers, the more it feels like the ultimate is a collection of different spells. I think the W captures that well right now, the E to some degree, and the Q not nearly enough.

She definitely pulls a lot of weight with all her spells. In fact, she's decidedly spell based and mostly weaves autos between them, but still plays a lot like a melee ADC because she can cast so many spells within her windows and (conditionally) deal steady spikes of damage. As far as the actual itemization, that is yet to be determined. Right now, she does have an attack speed steroid elsewhere on her kit (originally it was on the ult, but that doesn't fit for obvious reason), but it's not clear to me yet if that will or should stick. That is one of the balancing levers for her that partially determines if she's more assassin or melee ADC; in an ideal world I'd like her to play exactly like a melee ADC without any basic attack steroids, but that's a lofty goal that's probably not possible. I also don't want her to rely exclusively on her auto attacks like for example Tryndamere, I think it should be somewhere int he middle.

And I don't really have any thoughts on jungle Fiora at the moment. I'm really not sure if that's a reasonable expectation or not. It has not yet been tested, and it's definitely not the primary focus/intended role for her.



Actually, I think that's more of a consideration/potential problem for 'twitchy, reactive defensive spell' than this ultimate. I mean certainly it applies. But how bad would you say Akali or Jayce is to play with high ping? It's not ideal obviously, but I don't think it makes them unplayable.



I think there are levers you can tune to allow a character to be very mobile while not being completely out of hand. It's definitely a hard goal, and melee DPS seem to be one of the hardest classes to get right. I certainly would like to try.



It's something we've considered; ultimately I don't think it fits the fencing fantasy well so I'd rather try to go other routes to get the mobility we like. But we're not opposed to it if other methods fail.



It is. Riot is the bestest
NOOO so ur getting rid of her ult ((( playing all the champs and knowing their abilites i only fed out of fiora's spells her ult to be honest. since ur removing it maybe add it to a future champion


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

BlackAndSilver

Senior Member

04-05-2014

Please leave Fiora alone. I like how you haven't quoted one of the hundred posts giving you reasons why NOT to rework her. DON'T rework her. Worst case scenario this new yasuFiora will be weak as **** and useless, best case scenario she's just another FotM OP bull**** champ that'll be banned every single game (and of course get the eventual nerfs).

Just STOP everything you're doing. Leave her alone. Focus on tuning her if anything, then move on to other champs THAT REALLY NEED IT.

Please listen to the players that ACTUALLY PLAY FIORA. Not the people that never touch Fiora. Wouldn't that be fair and make sense?

"Right now, she does have an attack speed steroid elsewhere on her kit (originally it was on the ult, but that doesn't fit for obvious reason)"

BTW you mentioned Fiora having an attack speed steroid in her ult? What the ****? Do you even know what you're talking about? Is this seriously happening? Yet another champion getting RUINED by someone who doesn't have a ****ing clue about the champ.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Best Fiora NA

Junior Member

04-05-2014

@ Guinsoo .
OMG I LOVE YOU SO MUCH RIGHT NOW LIKE. UGHHHH YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW BECAUSE I'M TYPING IN CAPS RIGHT NOW! PLEASE NOTICE ME I LOVE YOU. I AM DA BEST FIORA. REMEMBER ME WHEN I MAKE IT TO LCS!! I WILL DO A SHOUTOUT FOR YOU <3


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Guinsoo

Game Designer

04-05-2014
8 of 11 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackAndSilver View Post
Please leave Fiora alone. I like how you haven't quoted one of the hundred posts giving you reasons why NOT to rework her. DON'T rework her. Worst case scenario this new yasuFiora will be weak as **** and useless, best case scenario she's just another FotM OP bull**** champ that'll be banned every single game (and of course get the eventual nerfs).

Just STOP everything you're doing. Leave her alone. Focus on tuning her if anything, then move on to other champs THAT REALLY NEED IT.

Please listen to the players that ACTUALLY PLAY FIORA. Not the people that never touch Fiora. Wouldn't that be fair and make sense?

"Right now, she does have an attack speed steroid elsewhere on her kit (originally it was on the ult, but that doesn't fit for obvious reason)"

BTW you mentioned Fiora having an attack speed steroid in her ult? What the ****? Do you even know what you're talking about? Is this seriously happening? Yet another champion getting RUINED by someone who doesn't have a ****ing clue about the champ.
People don't like change. It's in our nature; if we like something we don't want it to change. But that doesn't mean it's not for the better. I'm confident we can deliver a new Fiora kit that delivers most of the same mechanics that the old one has (including the important ones like the Blade Waltz experience) but creates new gameplay and makes her actually feel like a duelist.

I prefer to focus my responses toward posts that are more constructive.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Hellioning

Senior Member

04-05-2014

I like the idea of changing Fiora into an agile duelist, relying on hit and run techniques, but isn't that Yasuo's thing? How are you going to differentiate the two sufficiently so that one won't overshadow the other?

And that ult still looks stupid, especially the bonus armor pen. Can you just stop making abilities that are 'in addition to the actual effect, here are a bunch of free stats!' because those are stupid as all hell.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Tortferngatr

Senior Member

04-05-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guinsoo View Post
People don't like change. It's in our nature; if we like something we don't want it to change. But that doesn't mean it's not for the better. I'm confident we can deliver a new Fiora kit that delivers most of the same mechanics that the old one has (including the important ones like the Blade Waltz experience) but creates new gameplay and makes her actually feel like a duelist.

I prefer to focus my responses toward posts that are more constructive.
i.e. posts that provide suggestions as to how to improve the rework and/or point out reasonable challenges for the rework to keep in mind.

So if one reason people like Fiora's ult is that it gives them a window of time to plan their actions (since I don't play Fiora, just throwing that out as a wild guess), then there might be a need to pursue that.

As for the post you replied to, I wouldn't say I've seen 100 posters in this thread 100% against a Fiora rework.

People already complained Yasuo should have been a Fiora rework when he launched and that Fiora was Master Yi 2.0 when she launched. Honestly, I'm just interested in seeing how she turns out.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Alorasence

Senior Member

04-05-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackAndSilver View Post
Please leave Fiora alone. I like how you haven't quoted one of the hundred posts giving you reasons why NOT to rework her. DON'T rework her. Worst case scenario this new yasuFiora will be weak as **** and useless, best case scenario she's just another FotM OP bull**** champ that'll be banned every single game (and of course get the eventual nerfs).

Just STOP everything you're doing. Leave her alone. Focus on tuning her if anything, then move on to other champs THAT REALLY NEED IT.

Please listen to the players that ACTUALLY PLAY FIORA. Not the people that never touch Fiora. Wouldn't that be fair and make sense?

"Right now, she does have an attack speed steroid elsewhere on her kit (originally it was on the ult, but that doesn't fit for obvious reason)"

BTW you mentioned Fiora having an attack speed steroid in her ult? What the ****? Do you even know what you're talking about? Is this seriously happening? Yet another champion getting RUINED by someone who doesn't have a ****ing clue about the champ.

Why are you special? Why does your opinion mean more, or deserve more comment, than anyone else's?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Rauron

Senior Member

04-05-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackAndSilver View Post
What the ****? Do you even know what you're talking about? Is this seriously happening? Yet another champion getting RUINED by someone who doesn't have a ****ing clue about the champ.
I sincerely hope that your incredible immaturity and aversion to thought do not end up hurting those around you, or at least that they ditch you when it does. You'll grow eventually, probably, but right now you deserve neither respect nor consideration.