Guinsoo is working on Fiora

First Riot Post
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

TheNoodleNinja

Junior Member

04-04-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by T1gerBl00d27 View Post
"So, at risk of building hype... ;p

GUINSOO is working on a Fiora overhaul as a "light fighter." We're still in very early prototying, but we agree Fiora is one of the worst characters upon delivering on her fantasy - a skilled, deft fencer.

I think much of her kit will change, but for the better." - Morello

http://community.na.leagueoflegends....-fiora-purpose
They could start by making her auto attack a lunge instead of her whipping around a thrusting weapon...


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Renaito Yuujou

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

04-04-2014

Guinsoo, when you say that Fiora should move in and out of combat, I envision Fiora moving like how Diana's Q moves. I can see it now, a skilled duelist sees an opening. How should she capitalize on this opening? It's clearly not time for a killing blow. Mayhaps she could go in, deliver a taunting blow and then be out on the other side of her opponent, leaving them confused and distracted. While they focus their attention on her, the rest of her team is already collapsing on them. And if they don't fall for the bait? Well, that just leaves her alone in the back line, ready to show carries what damage is really all about.

That's the fantasy I see. I have no pretense that any of my fantasies will ever make it into League or be fulfilled by it, but it's still nice to dream.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

KilljoyX

Senior Member

04-04-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Renaito Yuujou View Post
Guinsoo, when you say that Fiora should move in and out of combat, I envision Fiora moving like how Diana's Q moves. I can see it now, a skilled duelist sees an opening. How should she capitalize on this opening? It's clearly not time for a killing blow. Mayhaps she could go in, deliver a taunting blow and then be out on the other side of her opponent, leaving the confused and distracted. While they focus their attention on her, the rest of her team is already collapsing on them. And if they don't fall for the bait? Well, that just leaves her alone in the back line, ready to show carries what damage is really all about.

That's the fantasy I see. I have no pretense that any of my fantasies will ever make it into League or be fulfilled by it, but it's still nice to dream.
So what you're saying is you think slice and dice is the perfect ability for fiora.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

YourEffortsAreIn

Senior Member

04-04-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by B00tyWarriorr View Post
How 'bout fixing poppy first? Fiora is pretty thematically bad but she's actually a pretty good champ if you learn her. Her jungle clear is some of the fastest in the game while staying at full hp. She's extremely underrated.
I don't think riot even knows what the **** to do with Poppy.

They at least know to keep her football charge, but everything else is pretty much... eh.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdJr View Post
The moment fiora's winrate is at a high level, a rework is announced that will no doubt lower it back to olaf/kass levels.

I see what you're doing riot. Fiora not allowed to have time in the winning spotlight?
Hasn't Fiora's winrate sat at a comfortable 52% for a long time now?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Mirage Night

Senior Member

04-04-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by UnsafeNormal View Post
Hi there Guinsoo. I've been playing Fiora for two seasons now, I ended post S3 in D1 with her and have been fluxuating all around Diamond this season. Suffice to say I have played a lot of Fiora and have a deep mechanical understanding of her kit and potential.

I just wanted to give you my perspective on Fiora. I've always pictured her as a hybrid of Master Yi and Zed. She has the reset potential/AS/MS boost of Master Yi, coupled with the strong, albeit slightly less reliable assassinating ultimate like Zed. While she can't quite clean up as hard as Master Yi, or single out an opponent in a teamfight as easily as Zed, she's able to fulfill both roles when built for them.

Seeing as you are taking the Yasuo approach to her kit, and making her more about mobility and auto attacking. So my question is will she be strong enough to even be competitive, or just wind up as another Master Yi? Yasuo's strength comes from his resourceless spamming of abilities, his extremely useful shield and windwall and his CCtastic Ult. On top of all that he is an absolute lategame monster because of his double crit passive.

Will Fiora even be able to stand up to that? Will she bring anywhere near the utility Yasuo does? Or just be Master Yi 2.0 with some extra mobility? A high damage, yet ultimately easily locked and burned down target. Will there be a reason to pick her over Yasuo?
This is the question that has been bugging me regarding the agile fighters of this game.(Fighter/Assassins)

Yi
Riven
Yasou
Fiora

Why take one over the other. In the end as you stated Yasou is a late game monster.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Renaito Yuujou

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

04-04-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by KilljoyX View Post
So what you're saying is you think slice and dice is the perfect ability for fiora.
Are you high? What about slice and dice is like Diana's Q? Let me break it down for you:

-Fiora dances in at an awkward angle
-Deals damage
-Dances out at an awkward angle

That's what I see. Not

-Straight line dash
-Deals damage
-If you dealt damage, another straight line dash

It angers me that you could confuse the two.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Critkeeper

Senior Member

04-04-2014

I made a thread about fiora being thematically unsatisfying a while back while u were on vacation BTW.

Here:
http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com...6#post39437386

You might find some useful feedback in it


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Guinsoo

Game Designer

04-04-2014
6 of 11 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by UnsafeNormal View Post
Hi there Guinsoo. I've been playing Fiora for two seasons now, I ended post S3 in D1 with her and have been fluxuating all around Diamond this season. Suffice to say I have played a lot of Fiora and have a deep mechanical understanding of her kit and potential.

I just wanted to give you my perspective on Fiora. I've always pictured her as a hybrid of Master Yi and Zed. She has the reset potential/AS/MS boost of Master Yi, coupled with the strong, albeit slightly less reliable assassinating ultimate like Zed. While she can't quite clean up as hard as Master Yi, or single out an opponent in a teamfight as easily as Zed, she's able to fulfill both roles when built for them.

Seeing as you are taking the Yasuo approach to her kit, and making her more about mobility and auto attacking. So my question is will she be strong enough to even be competitive, or just wind up as another Master Yi? Yasuo's strength comes from his resourceless spamming of abilities, his extremely useful shield and windwall and his CCtastic Ult. On top of all that he is an absolute lategame monster because of his double crit passive.

Will Fiora even be able to stand up to that? Will she bring anywhere near the utility Yasuo does? Or just be Master Yi 2.0 with some extra mobility? A high damage, yet ultimately easily locked and burned down target. Will there be a reason to pick her over Yasuo?
Here are 3 reasons off the top of my head to pick her over Yasuo. Please note I'm talking about her new kit with new abilities, not her old kit with a new ultimate. I just spoiled the ultimate for funsies
1) Kayle ult with a few catches on a normal slot
2) Weaker engage, but much stickier than Yasuo
3) Built in disengage

Quote:
Originally Posted by IonCannonKarthus View Post
Guinsoo, will her Riposte be able to block tower shots while she is ulting? The untargetability was a key feature of her ultimate when it came to tower diving.


It looks good though, I hope it turns out great.
I doubt it. I'm not a great fan of tower diving. I think her kit still leaves her much better positioned to tower dive than the average champion even without being untargetable/immune to turrets. I'm not completely opposed to her having some turret mitigation capabilities. But I'd rather avoid it, and so far my instinct tells me she'll do okay with out it just due to the sheer mobility on the kit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samzies View Post
I play her sometimes in normals and i've yet to encounter a situation where i feel like her passive had a meaningful effect on winning a duel or 2v2 skirmish. It's not really impactful later in the game either since she falls into an assassin role and fights end before it can really ramp up and heal her.
That's kind of what I'm driving at - the passive feels lame, it's especially lame in tense moments like battles with other champions, and its only real use is allowing her access to a lane that I don't really feel she belongs in in the first place. It's power without gameplay, and plus it feels useless too. It's effective, but totally lameballs. That's pretty much the opposite of where I'd like her passive design space to lie.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hashinshin View Post
Guinsoo you designed some of the most frustrating and OP champions ever conceived.

Guinsoo you designed some of the most creative and fun to play champions ever conceived.
Touche. That sort of sums up my design, kinda feast or famine. At the same time, it's remarkable how often really fun and interesting champions skirt that fine line...


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Coldmanj

Senior Member

04-04-2014

So I am excited to hear that Fiora is gonna see some love. What you are describing sounds dreamy to say the least, but that's the thing, it sounds "dreamy". Being able to "poke" as melee makes no sense in the game right now. Can you give an example of another melee champ that has the sort of poke you are describing? the only other champion that comes to my mind that has that sort of "poke" is fizz or lee sin, and that poke is more like an assassin going in for the kill. If you are looking to make Fiora into more of a fighter, someone who sticks around in the midst of the fight and not retreats after using their abilities, how do you expect Fiora to be built. The playstyle you describe is in fact an assassin playstyle and not one of a fighter. I just cant really imagine what you are describing without the unhealthy flag being thrown in my head.

edit: looks like i wasnt the only one confused and you reworded yourself which makes more sense now, well played good sir well played.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

MasterEvilAce

Senior Member

04-04-2014

Idea for improving her W:
Allow W to block AA/abilities/turret shots just like Pantheon's block. The difference being that she can activate it herself.
Decouple the damage from the blocking part.
Allow a second activation of W upon a successful block (that she has 1.5s to use before it goes on cooldown.) This second activation will be the damage portion of her ability. She'd need to be within melee range to use it. It would do % max health of target. W2 could either be an empowered AA, or a separate ability attack. Pro's/cons to each, not sure which I'd go with ATM.

Pro's/cons of this reworked W:
If timed correctly, can block a lot of damage (Yasuo can block tons of AOE abilities with his wall... Fiora blocking ONE AA/ability from ONE champion seems fine.)
Enemies don't immediately get punished (damage) by Fiora blocking an attack. This also opens up counter-play to enemies by allowing THEM to counter Fiora's return damage.
If Fiora uses her block without being in melee range, she is unable to trade damage. So she's stronger when actually dueling somebody.

Scenarios:
Shen Q's Fiora. Fiora blocks it with W. Fiora then counters with W2, which Shen shields. This is natural counter-play and is strategic from both sides.

Vayne AA's Fiora, which would proc silver bolts. Fiora W's the AA from Vayne, blocking the damage. She is not within melee range of Vayne, so therefore she used her ability DEFENSIVELY, and is unable to trade the damage back to Vayne.


That's purely just about making her W better.. being smart with its use, and making it an ability that is actually worth having on a champion's kit. Encourages Fiora to be active in combat, and makes her strong in 1v1 situations