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When is it okay to kill? Honest question.

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Snughie

Junior Member

04-04-2014

It's not that long a read, and you don't have to read it all, but I'd appreciate it. The very bottom is the most important part if you're wondering, though.

Hi. Semi-new to League, have been playing probably around a month with a friend, we've both gotten really into it.

Now, my question. When is it okay to kill an enemy champion? I really must ask. Because many players seem to have a secret set of rules in place of which I am not aware. Sorry, a little smart-alecy, but I'm fairly frustrated about this.

Now, I main Jinx for reference. Here's an example of what I mean...if I attack an enemy champion first, and wittle away around 80% of their health, then suddenly another player begins attacking him with their ult or whatever, and kills them when they were on their last legs. That's a kill steal, right? Should I be mad about this? Because I usually let other players just KS me and finish them off, because even if I worked really hard for the kill, they'll probably still tell me I KSed it away from them if I go in for the kill.

What if an ally champion attacks an enemy champion first, but I attack not long after, and manage take away 80% of the champs health and kill him? Am I kill stealing?

Players seem to "mark" their kills, as in, if you attacked him first...he's yours. I don't know if this is an unspoken rule, but I've begun following it. To a point where I get almost no kills and a crapload of assists.

Because I'll "kill" plenty of champs in the sense that whether or not I attacked them first, I still managed to be the one to do 90% of the health damage, the one who worked hard for it. But I always seem to just concede, stop, and let someone else have the kill if they're even REMOTELY nearby.

Why? Cause I get yelled at. "KS!" I see people say to one another more than anything in this game...but how does one define a KS? Even if he attacked first, does that really mean that that's HIS target now? Til death? And I should just back off?

What about if I see an ally champ and an enemy champ both low on health. And I know that if I intervene, I can save him, and kill the enemy champ...but if I do so, then he'll tell me I'm KSing. If I don't help, he'll die, and then blame me for not helping.

This exact situation happened in a game with a guy that screamed "KS" at everyone after every assist he got. So I told him why I didn't help, because I didn't want to take his kills, I didn't want to get yelled at.

But I was still apparently in the wrong...because another guy lashed out at me too.

If nobody has any better advice, which I doubt because this is a pretty great newbie forum, I'll tell you what rule I'm going by concerning KSing:

My Rule: No matter who attacks first, the one who does the most damage to the champ is the rightful "killer" of the champ. And I will not use my ult to finish off low-health champs my allies worked hard to kill, that's just cheesy.

Is this an acceptable rule? I would think so, but nobody seems to follow it. Everyone just seems so eager to get kills that the teams I'm on seem more eager to out kill one ANOTHER than actually use teamwork and try and...you know, win the game?

I personally don't think K/D ratios really matter much, but...I guess quite a few people disagree. Help me out here, I need some advice if how I'm acting is wrong, and how I should act instead.


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DreadPirateChris

Senior Member

04-04-2014

Don't worry about KS if you're not platinum. People scream KS all the time for the dumbest reasons.

If you're a good enough player to make all these judgements in a split second correctly every time, then -
-if- the enemy is 100% dead no matter what (cannot possibly flash a wall or have an escape skill come off cooldown or turn the fight around in any way),
-and- assist gold is already certain because more than one ally has hit the enemy (otherwise assist gold is simply lost)
-and- the fight was mostly a 1v1 with one ally starting the fight and doing most of the damage,
-and- the ally who you would give the kill too has carry potential (particularly ADC and midlaner, but any champ with serious damage potential really),
-and- you are fed already -or- have less carry potential,
-then- you can give the kill to the champ who had been 1v1.

If any of those conditions are -not- true then you should pour on the damage. As a Jinx main you'll rarely be in a position to 'kill steal' - you -should- get the kills as the carry of the lane, not the support (although the support should not hold back until the kill is certain. Often the support will get a kill when simply trying to stun, and that's just how it is. Better than an escape.)

If the jungler ganks, it's a team effort and whether you or the jungler get the kill, it's all good - more gank potential or a stronger ADC are both good things. Later in the game, almost all damage you do will or should be in a teamfight situation. ADCs make poor duelists. In a teamfight situation, everyone pours on the damage, and whoever gets the kill gets it. If you're a really fed ADC and your high-damage-potential ally has been struggling you could give them the kill and let them catch up... but you better be sure that they -can- get the kill which is hard unless you're very familiar with their abilities and cooldown times. If you stop shooting or miss out on a crucial chance to use your zap or chompers and they get away, that's -infinitely- worse.

The short of it is that there's few cases where kill stealing is a legitimate complaint, most of those cases are when the support 'steals' kills, and good players generally -won't- complain about a kill-steal anyway. It only -matters- because it's slightly less than optimal gold distribution, but it's -still- a dead enemy and gold added to the team so it's simply not a big deal. For less than expert players, it's better not to worry about kill stealing at -all- because misjudging when to give a kill and losing it altogether is going to hurt the team far more than optimizing gold channeling will help the team.

Also, jinx should absolutely use her ult to kill low health champs her teammates beat down if those champs are about to escape. That's why it's called an execution skill. Obviously you shouldn't waste it if the low health champ is surrounded, locked down, and about to die anyway because, well, then you won't have the ult anymore for the next low health champ who flashes out of range of everything your team has -except- your ult.

The idea though is to maximize team K/D and team gold, and turn your kill advantage into objectives and your gold advantage into a strong build... not to maximize some odd notion of 'fair' kills.


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Snughie

Junior Member

04-04-2014

Quote:
DreadPirateChris:
wordswordswords


Thanks very much Chris for the great response on every point I made, good advice.

And yeah, the exception for the rule for my ult would only be if the champ is escaping...which seems to be the most practical use for Jinx's ult anyway as it gains damage over travel, but I think I'm just kinda a chicken when it comes to getting yelled at.

We're all playing a game, you know? To have fun? So I try not to do anything I think will even remotely tick people off. Like stealing the kills they might think are theirs.

But I definitely get it. I should be less stingy, and I feel that the vast majority of players won't scream KS if I manage to pluck a kill they had decided was theirs, but wasn't. And you're right, the gold distribution isn't that much different.

I think it's just...y'know, E-Peen measuring in some cases when it comes to kills I'm afraid. I'll be a little bit more liberal with my assault, I'll try not to hold back as much on the account of "fair kills" if I know for a fact I can get the job done.


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OhBoyItsaMegaman

Senior Member

04-04-2014

The proper response to an accusation of KS is "KS = Kill Secured".

Whatever secret set of rules someone has regarding who has done enough to deserve kill credit, they need to discard those rules as fast as possible if they want to be taken seriously. Among experienced players, the only time someone says "KS!" there's a smiley face next to it. Giving away kills to a teammate is a strategy to try to maximize your team's chances of winning, not a matter of preserving their pride. It's always better for the team for you to take a kill rather than give it away incorrectly.

This is even more true for Co-op vs AI matches. There's no pressing need to funnel gold to your carries because you're going to win regardless of who gets the kills. So it's practically a KS contest; you should be trying to take kills so that you have the best score at the end. No one has any right to complain in a bot match.


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EmployeNumber427

Senior Member

04-04-2014

If you know their flash/other mobility spells are down, they are at less than 100 health, and are currently under hard CC, it's safe to not attack them.


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Ryuukii

Senior Member

04-04-2014

tl;dr If no one else can get it, then go for it even if you're support. It would be in the team's best interest to give it to the ADC or mid, but at the same time you shouldn't run the risk of the kill getting away trying to pass it off to the ADC. If it happens, then it happens, and better than no kill!


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Escru

Senior Member

04-04-2014

If its pretty obvious your teammate was in a 1on1 with the enemy and just chasing them to finish em off, and it is obvious they have an ability on cooldown or whatever that is about to come up...if you kill them that is a kill steal. Still, its whatever.

If your teammate is almost dead and you're unsure who'll win, then its not a killsteal imo. Any other situation is definitely not a killsteal.


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3rdWorstPlayerNA

Senior Member

04-04-2014

When I see someone start pouting about someone "KS'n" them in a game, my hopes for a win in that game begin a downward spiral. Usually the people you see scream in chat about being KS'd are the same ones who rage on teammates, afk because they didn't get their way, etc etc.


I mostly play ARAM these days and you don't see people holler about it as much there as you do on the Rift, but you still see it some. When someone begins ranting about being KS'd it's best to just try and ignore them, or tell them you love them too. For some reason, being told "I love you too" shuts some folk up. lol


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manlydino12

Member

04-04-2014

Kill steal is when they brought them to low health, they are just about to kill them and then you pop out and kill them. That's a kill steal. But if you have been chasing for a while and they just manged to get the kill, then thats not a kill steal.


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Invisibleally

Senior Member

04-04-2014

Quote:
Snughie:

My Rule: No matter who attacks first, the one who does the most damage to the champ is the rightful "killer" of the champ. And I will not use my ult to finish off low-health champs my allies worked hard to kill, that's just cheesy.


KS stands for "Kill Secured" as far as I'm concerned. I couldn't care less about the statistics, or even pentakills. If an enemy is in range and I think an ult will serve as the best means to kill them, it's going to happen.

I focus on winning as a team.

I've also heard an interesting viewpoint: if you have 12 kills and the next closest teammate has only 3, it makes sense to try to give the teammate the kill if possible to help them get stronger, which bolsters the entire team. That being said, secure the kill if they hesitate.

Even if I've done 99% of the damage and it seems like a pure "kill steal", I figure that if they had the opportunity to kill the enemy before me, that saved me a few seconds to start moving toward the next objective/creep wave.

The only time it really gets to me is when someone is taking every kill but then refuses to attack the enemy otherwise. That's assisting the enemy.


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