The Gragas Followup Thread

First Riot Post
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Testing for hemo

Senior Member

04-03-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solcrushed View Post
Can you tell me what you mean by this? Do you mean the W will proc on whoever he hits with E?

I would think once the issue with the Autoattack after E is fixed, E would more or less guarantee a W anyway.
you can kind of think of what i would like E to do, is kind of like an ability that can proc sheen on hit, not saying i want E to proc on hits, just that i want it to proc W if he has it up.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

cF Dawgy

Senior Member

04-03-2014

I just got finished playing a game with Gragas jungle, and I have one minor gripe (otherwise I really enjoy what was done with him):

Why does W still have a channel time? It made since with the context of the previous Drunken Rage, as the effect of the 2 second channel lasted an entire 20 seconds, so you effectively never were in a position to where you had to channel mid-fight. Now, however, the channel doesn't even make sense with regard to the cooldown. If I'm using it as often as I should be when I'm engaging an enemy, I'm effectively rendering myself useless for 1 second mid-combat, and by the time I'm finished channeling, the enemy I wanted to overhead smash with my barrel is already out of range, allowing me to get kited until I die. I could be invulnerable to damage for that 3 seconds and it wouldn't make a difference. This change alone forces him into a top lane role, and I'm not sure how I feel about that.

Tl;dr BASICALLY your W is only good before you engage with E. It's useless mid-fight, and goes against the direction of his new kit. This can all be rectified if the Channel time is removed.

As a side note, your Barrel Roll cask should honestly begin fermenting from the time you activate the ability, not from the time it reaches its destination. Since it might be OP in that regard, it should at least ferment faster. To me, it feels like max range barrel roll takes too long to reach critical mass, and whether or not that's for balance reasons is irrelevant; it just feels bad to use Barrel Roll if you can't hit an enemy at critical mass.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Xohs

Senior Member

04-03-2014

Part of me is considering just to skip W and split points between Q and E. Then again, %hp damage..


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

GnomeDigest

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

04-03-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
Gragas support seems pretty legit. I expect to see a good deal of it in our future.

Quote:
Originally Posted by T1gerBl00d27 View Post
Interesting POV. Care to elaborate?
The slow on the barrel is great for peeling and chasing down in lane for a kill. The barrel itself is pretty good for zoning out the ADC. I just had a game as support Gragas where my ADC Ez had three times as much cs as the Ashe with his lulu support in part because it was hard for ashe to get close to the minions, especially once we had him under his tower as the tower closes the width of the lane by a lot making it even easier to zone with the barrel.

Then the stun on his E is great for saving your ADC from ganks and what not and also for initiating fights/trades in lane. Same with his ult once you get it. I fought vs a taric in another game and he would stun my ADC and I would just E him and he couldnt get close enough to shatter my ADC or auto him. Pretty much shut him down.

I will say that in all my 4-5 support gragas games so far I dont know that I have I have once yet landed his empowered W auto in lane. They see me channel and move away. Or I try to E in and channel and they move away with a dash or I get creep blocked trying to land it (god gragas is slow now). Or I channel it hidden in a bush and try to walk out and E auto but the duration is up before it lands. The empowered auto part of W has just been useless in lane as support gragas so far because its so awkward to use. It does give you great health sustain from his passive though which means I can trade well and then get back up to full much faster than the supports I face once our potions are used up.

I am not convinced Gragas support will work that well mid-late game though. I think you will basically be a walking ult with some minor peal. They would have to let his CC scale into lategame for the peal to be impactful enough. I think this will also hurt him a lot if he tries to fill the tank role from Top or Jungle as well. I doubt you can get tanky or bruiser enough to do any damage when having to invest in at least some support items like a sightstone. Hell I think its going to be hard to make him a scary combat threat in any role into lategame, so especially hard as support.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

RickDodger

Senior Member

04-03-2014

http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com....php?t=4413764 this says it all but i have what i figured here.

I'm having issues with parts of gragas's new kit. When I use E to hit enemies, gragas doesn't return to auto attacking unless I click the target I want to attack. Then there's his W, where as I would wish they allow it to work while dashing so you can drink while sliding.

the W so far is quite clunky. you channel for 1 second while moving at 20% less speed, but the DR lasts for 3 seconds, in which one second of those 3 seconds is wasted channeling, meaning it only lasts for 2 seconds. Then when I try to go in, my DR is gone after 2 seconds and I'm left squishie for the fight unless i spend another 1 second doing nothing but drinking again.

In ultra rapid fire, it's even more pointless. with how low the cooldown is, all you end up doing is spamming W to waste second after second keeping up your damage reduction while you're contributing nothing to the teamfight unless you STOP DRINKING.

I still feel like riot laid an egg with this one but I can't complain about the kit with Q and E. I'm just irritated that they locked down his tankiness with a DR that only lasts for 2 seconds in a fight by my calculations. 2 seconds as in you waste one second channeling for it and 2 seconds are left remaining on it...

My advice, the 3 second countdown should start after the channel, not during. That way you can have a full 3 seconds of damage reduction at hand to work with.

Another problem I know with his W. It won't go on cooldown until after you use the bonus on hit effect, or until after it goes off cooldown. Meaning if you don't get anyone with your bonus on-hit effect, then you're stuck waiting not only the duration of the bonus, but the cooldown that comes after.

Say you use drunken rage. You channel for one second, but that one second is also one second out of 3 seconds of your damage reductions duration during channel. Thus you get 2 seconds of DR and your on-hit effect lasts for 5 seconds until you use it. However, your W has not gone into cooldown yet. If you have no one to hit with your on-hit effect, then you're stuck with waiting 5 seconds for it to expire, and THEN the abilty's cooldown starts.

But let's do the math. 3 seconds of DR - 1 second of channeling after activation = 2 seconds of DR. 5 seconds of bonus on-hit effect buff - 2 seconds of DR = 3 seconds of bonus on-hit effect buff.

this is to calculate how much time you have to wait for the ability to go into cooldown... so if we add that with the cooldown itself...

3 seconds of buff + 8 seconds early game of COOLDOWN. meaning you have to wait 11 seconds before getting another ... 2 seconds of DR.

Sure you're moving while you're drinking, but that's it. you can't use E, you can't use Q, you can't use ult... you're wasting one second of drinking for only 2 seconds of benefits, and 11 seconds of waiting to use it again? Where's the fluidity in that?

Sure while you're using E and Q to slow and stun/knock back, you're still in the damn fight. Sure when you upgrade W to 6 seconds that means you're only waiting oh...9 seconds if you don't hit anyone... and around 6 seconds if you do hit SOMETHING... the longer you wait to use your bonus on-hit effect, the longer you wait on getting your DR back again for only another 2 seconds.

I don't think the bonus damage you get from W makes up for it if you have no one around to use it on. But when you have no one around to use it on, you just 'drink up' and use your innate ability to heal for 4% of your max health on that time. I think that's the only good use you get out of W if you get full CDR of 40% ... you W, you drink, you heal, and you wait another 8 seconds to do it again...and again...and again.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

cF Dawgy

Senior Member

04-03-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xohs View Post
Part of me is considering just to skip W and split points between Q and E. Then again, %hp damage..
I'd love W if it had no channel time and reset your auto-attack timer. Right now it just feels like the ability is much too telegraphed. If I see a Gragas use his W, I'm going to walk away while he's channeling, and unless his E is up, he won't be able to close the gap. When he does, his damage mitigation will be over.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Kira Onime

Senior Member

04-03-2014

So just what is Gragas supposed to be?


What does he bring to the table compared to old Gragy and what justifies picking him over anything else although to be fair, I'd have to know just what he's supposed to be before comparing.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Cho for Athene

Senior Member

04-03-2014

Just increase the length on his W and he will be fine. 3 seconds is too short. Or remove the channel time. This will make him a lot more reliable.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

GnomeDigest

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

04-03-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kira Onime View Post
So just what is Gragas supposed to be?
Not picked a lot in pro play?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

RickDodger

Senior Member

04-03-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kira Onime View Post
So just what is Gragas supposed to be?


What does he bring to the table compared to old Gragy and what justifies picking him over anything else although to be fair, I'd have to know just what he's supposed to be before comparing.

His passive is suppose to help the laning phase, but back then it was 2% over 4 seconds, so they doubled it to 4% max health for healing with static 8 second Cooldown.

Q is a shorter range slow enducing poke. It still makes him good mid lane but it also bullies the enemy mid or top lane with the same concept of a range poke magey gragas. That didn't change other than it made the enemy unsure when you're going to 'pop the casket'.

W, I've made my statement about it massively so no comment.

E, I like it. The 3 second reduction in CD is a bit lacking but that means you're made to buy CDR to help use your dash more constantly while chasing. Combine that with his Q when prematurely popping the barrel lets you keep the chase going with your opponent. Like trying to place olaf's undertow to hit enemies along the way and grab it to reduce cooldown. You gotta be good enough to get both right so you can make enemies regret running from a fight.

ult, same as any. it fits and it's fun...it's just sad that it has to saddle with this kit.