The Gragas Followup Thread

First Riot Post
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KokolokoKidD

Junior Member

04-06-2014

I've played gragas a good number of times, and in my opinion it's no nerf at all, just a gameplay change. Long range bursting is not his best thing anymore but if you get used to the drunken brawler gameplay, he can still be one hell of a beast. Of course he is not the same so experienced players might not like the change, and he didnt ABSOLUTELY need a change of gameplay (he was still playable before ukno) but i like the change because it suits him wayyy better in my opinion, and it makes him much more versatile (jungle, top and support are more considerable now) and fun to play because you dont have to rely on his q so much, and now the possible combos of abilities and positioning are really what u have to focus on.
Overall i understand and totallyagree with what riot wants to do with this change, and I think it's a succes. Of course some things can be tuned:
-The duration of thé W autoattack boost,
-range on the E,
-the E hitbox (i often get stopped by a minion thats on my side while i cast)
-SHORTER ANIMATION/CHANNEL ON HIS R to make it usable more effectively,
------and it would be AWESOME to have a different indicator on his R (idk a little circle with arrows going outward that show the direction of the knockback) because often while using his R on groups, you never really know if u aligned it well until you see where the enemies go because you cant really tell where they get pushed until they do, making it so that his ult doesnt really shine and often gets wasted by pushing valuable targets away from the fight... :/


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OG JASON

Senior Member

04-06-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by KokolokoKidD View Post
I've played gragas a good number of times, and in my opinion it's no nerf at all, just a gameplay change. Long range bursting is not his best thing anymore but if you get used to the drunken brawler gameplay, he can still be one hell of a beast. Of course he is not the same so experienced players might not like the change, and he didnt ABSOLUTELY need a change of gameplay (he was still playable before ukno) but i like the change because it suits him wayyy better in my opinion, and it makes him much more versatile (jungle, top and support are more considerable now) and fun to play because you dont have to rely on his q so much, and now the possible combos of abilities and positioning are really what u have to focus on.
Overall i understand and totallyagree with what riot wants to do with this change, and I think it's a succes. Of course some things can be tuned:
-The duration of thé W autoattack boost,


-range on the E,
-the E hitbox (i often get stopped by a minion thats on my side while i cast)
-SHORTER ANIMATION/CHANNEL ON HIS R to make it usable more effectively,
------and it would be AWESOME to have a different indicator on his R (idk a little circle with arrows going outward that show the direction of the knockback) because often while using his R on groups, you never really know if u aligned it well until you see where the enemies go because you cant really tell where they get pushed until they do, making it so that his ult doesnt really shine and often gets wasted by pushing valuable targets away from the fight... :/

I definitely agree that hes fine the way he is however, minions sometimes stop my e in the most retarded ways to beh onest


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Cosmic Warper

Junior Member

04-06-2014

Besides the W clunk and problems, and the E hitbox issue, the only real issue i have is with his movement speed. Why reduce his base movement speed to mage levels if he's a brawler now who's gapcloser is on an even longer cooldown? Why make him even more immobile in the early-mid game when he's supposed to get up close and move around the map to find enemies? His movement speed was fine, but nerfing the cooldown of the E AND reducing his movement speed was too much.


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MasterDragonKing

Junior Member

04-06-2014

the rework was supposed to make him a drunken brawler. he is anything but that! he is less of a drunken brawler than he was before the rework. his W is way too predictable and the duration too short. it's as if gragas lacks any W ability. the result is that gragas does less damage and is less tanky than before. the only area where he excels more in now is utility, but that still doesn't make him the drunken brawler he was meant to be. i think his old W was fine.


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Efrath

Senior Member

04-06-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solcrushed View Post
I feel that the identity was set out already - a brawler that is supposed to mix it up in close range and not just from afar.

If his current tuning does not allows him to do this then we will fix it. Simple as that.
I do wanna say that I like the changes thus far and I feel that he still has potentially the same, if not more, power as before. Honestly, it wouldn't be all too surprising if we saw Gragas played even more in LCS and people complaining about him being OP once the clunkiness of his W is sorted out.

Nevertheless, he'll indeed become a brawler regardless (That W has way too much potential to ignore) and I look forward to seeing what type of builds people will come up for him.

As for now, I feel the biggest problem is the duration of the AA buff on his W. You have to realize that he IS slowed during the W channel and anyone with a brain will back off, meaning that it usually is wasted, especially in this meta where there's so many champions with free flashes and whatnot.

So yeah, I guess you either increase the duration or make it so that the channel time of W doesn't slow him down (though that could lead to imbalance I imagine).


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HighOnPolPot

Member

04-07-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exsanguinated View Post
How are you pretty sure love?
I tried playing him in the jungle. The fact that you can't spam E anymore really butchers his clear time as that was his only decent damage low CD skill. Upping all his cooldowns and taking away his W autoattack damage makes actually doing the jungle a lot worse.

He's obviously a better ganker than old jungle Gragas, I just see him as a subpar character if you're playing him for his ganks. Would rather have Sejuani (who seems like a good execution of what they want new Gragas to be) or Vi or Amumu for that role, really. It's not unplayable, it's just not very good. Kinda like Nautilus.

The ultimate problem is he's bad at doing what they designed him to do (Drunken Brawling?). He's a really really bad autoattacker and has no spell based sustained damage like other characters of the ap bruiser ilk. So you're almost always just gonna rotate your spells and move to safety as soon as you use them because ap bruisers are, like casters, useless without their cooldowns. His cooldowns are all rather long so this means he plays very similarly to how he did before, only he just doesn't do a lot of damage and is massively easier to kill because his dash takes longer to come back up and his W doesn't provide any effective forms of tankiness in its current incarnation.

But since they made a new animation for it they're gonna force the skill to work. Even the huge buffs I advised earlier probably won't do much to make it a decent skill. It's just so absurdly clunky and bad that even truly bad players can play around it.


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Kwubbz50

Junior Member

04-07-2014

I feel he isn't a mid laner anymore he just ain't there DMg wise to get with the meta honestly like with lb and can't clear as well as say a ziggs I feel the q change wasn't the best


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AmanteSC

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Member

04-07-2014

My main gripe so far is how clunky his W feels. Most "on next hit" abilities are instant and reset your autoattack; Gragas's W fits neither.

What would be ideal is if you could hold his W for its current functionality (including the DR, but have it last a little longer, like 4-5s), with the option to tap it for a standard "on next hit" autoattack reset instead.

That might take a bit of work to implement, though...


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kodin

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Junior Member

04-07-2014

Long time Gragas fan here. He was my main in S2 and primary mid in S3. I remember wayyy back trying him out during one of his first free weeks and loving his playstyle. Landing barrels from long range was so satisfying to me. To me he was the League's version of Donkey Kong.

To sum up this Gragas rework I'm going to use an analogy. Let's say you bought a high horsepower motorcycle. You loved how fast it went, how gas efficient it was, and you didn't really need any storage capacity on your vehicle. Now fast forward three years into the future. The company who manufactured the motorcycle decides that they didn't intend for the motorcycle to be so fast, be so gas efficient, or be entirely bereft of storage capacity. So they steal the motorcycle from your driveway and replace it with an giant, gas guzzling, slow, SUV. You hate this SUV because it is the antithesis of the motorcycle you loved.

Bottom line: Riot took an apple I loved and made it into an orange I hate. This wouldn't be so bad if LoL was simply a free game and I had nothing invested in Gragas. However, I spent hundreds of hours mastering that character. To add insult to injury, I spent money on skins for him. Now I have skins for a champ that I will never play again outside of an ARAM and because of the incredibly bad "three strike" refund policy I'm stuck with them.

Radical changes like this to characters who were stable for years really only hurt the people who were with Riot from the beginning. The people who have paid hundreds of dollars for skins because they wanted to support the game. I WAS one of those people but frankly the changes that have been made over the last year have leave me feeling more and more alienated. I am very disappointed with these changes and I can't see spending another dime on this game with the way things are going.


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BilI Gates

Senior Member

04-07-2014

Im a hardcore gragas player and i want my question to be answered

It does look like Gragas has shifted from mid lane to top lane and i dont know if that was inteded or not but he is not bad in the top lane i beat Renekton in lane with him we could trade almost evenly. Leaving his barrel late exploit looks to give him his old damage back that he had on his Q. That is fine when youre in lane but when you are in fights your Q does almost no damage. That goes the same to your E. His Ult does as much damage as a lvl 2 Q when it wasnt nervfed. I think you guys really have to play around with the damages gives to his abilities and the AP rations because even though he is a tank now he needs some damage or else he is just useless. IM NOT happy that he got changed into a tank now but i know that he can be a top tier top lane pick if he gets the right buffs.

maybe we could be seeing a tank mid lane in LCS pulling out a tanky gragas who knows