The Gragas Followup Thread

First Riot Post
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RickDodger

Senior Member

04-03-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charzin View Post
Do you have any idea what you have to prove as 'psychological damages'? Did you know that if your case is found to be frivolous, the defending party can apply to have you pay their court costs for wasting the time of their lawyer? Do you know how much it costs to pay a lawyer for the duration of a case? Do you think that you/community can afford a better litigator than Riot Games, who currently run one of the most successful games in the world?

Do you have ANY idea what you're talking about when you're saying you want to sue Riot because they changed your champion.
**** you, **** this, and **** saying i was ****ing joking... ****.


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MentalBlok

Junior Member

04-04-2014

After trying out Gragas a bit myself and seeing other people's opinions, I agree that he doesn't have a very cohesive identity right now. I could see him being a good close range mage in the vein of Ryze if his scaling was buffed a bit or if his cooldowns were lowered. Currently his kit has a bunch of utility, which could also work with a tanky style. I think a tanky Gragas would need a more useful "W" though. As pointed out, the damage reduction isn't all that helpful, since it's pretty much only there during and a bit after the channel. Using it fights feels kind of bad, because you're slowing yourself and can be interrupted. Maybe instead of making it an lowish cooldown on hit, raise the cooldown but give him a damage reduction buff that also adds magic damage to his basic attacks? That would fit thematically with the brawler idea-Gragas hits harder after he drinks, while being more resistant to punishment.


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SanSarra

Senior Member

04-04-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
Gragas support seems pretty legit. I expect to see a good deal of it in our future.
Yeah, you'd better take example over people who know HOW TO DO THEIR JOBS.

GTFO.


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WOOSHY

Senior Member

04-04-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by MentalBlok View Post
After trying out Gragas a bit myself and seeing other people's opinions, I agree that he doesn't have a very cohesive identity right now. I could see him being a good close range mage in the vein of Ryze if his scaling was buffed a bit or if his cooldowns were lowered. Currently his kit has a bunch of utility, which could also work with a tanky style. I think a tanky Gragas would need a more useful "W" though. As pointed out, the damage reduction isn't all that helpful, since it's pretty much only there during and a bit after the channel. Using it fights feels kind of bad, because you're slowing yourself and can be interrupted. Maybe instead of making it an lowish cooldown on hit, raise the cooldown but give him a damage reduction buff that also adds magic damage to his basic attacks? That would fit thematically with the brawler idea-Gragas hits harder after he drinks, while being more resistant to punishment.
He's perfect now. what are you people talking about?

You build him tanky ap:

Rush ROA
then
Haunting Guise
Zhonyas
Abbysal
Merc Treds

He wrecks now. His sustain is still crazy. His damage can be higher if you position his barrels right and there are a lot more combinations you can do:

Q on top of you and let it sit > W > E into them to stun and auto (damage from W) then ult them toward your barrel, detonate and bam a kill.

Running away from champs? throw out a Q, wait as long as you can and det it to slow them massively and use E to dash through walls and on top of that you can use R to knock them away from you.

Really skilled gragas's can pull this off quite well, ****ty ones cant. Isn't that what we want? i'm doing fine in my games with him.

This is the way gragas was suppose to be played before riot decided to make him some glasscannon mage. Now, he plays like season 2 gragas, which is very awesome.

<3 new gragas


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SanSarra

Senior Member

04-04-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solcrushed View Post
This is the thread I hope to consolidate the feedback on the new Gragas. While we won't be making significant balance changes before we have some data, feel free to suggest improvements, builds and lanes!

Some changes I will be making for the next patch regardless of his balance.

Gragas will not auto acquire a target after E if he has W buff active.
Gragas E hitbox adjustments to make sure you hit the units you feel you should be hitting
Gragas W autoattack buff lasts 1 second longer
Hi Solcrushed, Now that you've done Gragas rework, would you mind taking care of Rengar and Skarner?


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Sincarnation

Senior Member

04-04-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solcrushed View Post
This is the thread I hope to consolidate the feedback on the new Gragas. While we won't be making significant balance changes before we have some data, feel free to suggest improvements, builds and lanes!

Some changes I will be making for the next patch regardless of his balance.

Gragas will not auto acquire a target after E if he has W buff active.
Gragas E hitbox adjustments to make sure you hit the units you feel you should be hitting
Gragas W autoattack buff lasts 1 second longer
Ok ive got a lot of questions as a PBE tester that I hope you will answer

People on the PBE were asking for these changes for a while, why did u ship the rework knowing those needed to be addressed?
Gragas didn't get a single modification or balance change after the rework launch unless you count his animation fixes. As a gragas "main" I and many others wrote long list of things about gragas that were likely going to be problematic, but no red commented (no discussion) and there ware never any changes. Did u guys opt to just push it as a "we need to get normal gragas off of live NOW" sort of thing or was it planned beforehand not to get many PBE changes?
I made a post there hoping that the Gragas rework wouldnt be in the 4.5 patch because i dont feel like he received even a notable fraction of the attention the kassadin rework did, and it comes across when I play him.


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RickDodger

Senior Member

04-04-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sincarnation View Post
Ok ive got a lot of questions as a PBE tester that I hope you will answer

People on the PBE were asking for these changes for a while, why did u ship the rework knowing those needed to be addressed?
Gragas didn't get a single modification or balance change after the rework launch unless you count his animation fixes. As a gragas "main" I and many others wrote long list of things about gragas that were likely going to be problematic, but no red commented (no discussion) and there ware never any changes. Did u guys opt to just push it as a "we need to get normal gragas off of live NOW" sort of thing or was it planned beforehand not to get many PBE changes?
I made a post there hoping that the Gragas rework wouldnt be in the 4.5 patch because i dont feel like he received even a notable fraction of the attention the kassadin rework did, and it comes across when I play him.
HOLD THE ****ING PHONE! you're saying they RUSHED GRAGAS? ... Okay something's ****ed up here then.


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Efrath

Senior Member

04-04-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solcrushed View Post
Lanes were less of an issue to us when we were doing the rework. We were more concerned about changing his core pattern than we were about lane assignments.

We would expect that his new strengths and weakness suit him better in non-mid lanes but if he is still proven to be a good mid we would be fine with it, provided that the pattern change holds.
Honestly, I believe he's stronger as a AP mid now BUT harder to master and use successfully. He also has better waveclear and more CC.

So yeah, pretty sure he's still a good Mid champ at least, the problem will be to figure out the optimal build if anything. Lichbane feels like it should be a core with his new build but at the same time he is more risky and squishier so you have to ask, which two of the three, CDR, Lichbane or Health, would be the best for Gragas as a mid champ now?

Anyway, the W now applying a boosted AA ALONG with up to 12% Max health is pretty huge and more than makes up for nerfs on damage on Q and Ult IMO and makes his combo even more lethal.

He probably will also be a viable AP tank as well, though that's left to see.

May I ask about the reasoning behind wishing to change so that E doesn't autoacquire a target? I am assuming this means he wont automatically apply an Autoattack. Would it be possible to make it so E AA automatically attacks a Champion if you have W on?


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PoppytillWoodV

Member

04-04-2014

Gragas just doesnt feel fun same with the rengar rework. I love fast champions and it seems you want to turn everything into bruiser meta. I don't don't want to play support when there are a lot of other champions that need love why are you focusing on champs that had a role and were viable. Instead of nerfing everything (dumbing down) why not focus on bringing other champions up to par. Perfect balance isn't fun. This is my opinion, both of the reworks feel slow and bad when I hit skills or go in I want to feel like I did something not like mi tickling the other hero. The q on rengar and gragas feel bad maybe you should have changed them entirely if you couldn't think of a good alternative to nerfing there numbers through the floor.


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Alice Twilight

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Senior Member

04-04-2014

Except the gragas rework is a failure on many levels not the least of which is that it's a very not player focused change. As as Kass player the rework hit him hard and he still feels bad to play but at least once I get items the things that were fun about him are still there. Gragas is just ruined and doesn't play like he used to. How can gragas players actually still care about the guy, he doesn't play even remotely like he used to.