Rengar Thread of Bolas and Roaring

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h 2

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Senior Member

04-05-2014

12 trophy bonus is so completely unrewarding with the current state of the ult.


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AntiSkillshot

Senior Member

04-05-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowsaotome View Post
This thread features some of the most ungrateful people I've ever seen. Scruffy makes multiple posts about changes to Rengar that largely cater to the suggestions in this thread, and yet the hate and rage continue. Would it kill you people to give a simple thank you? For the rare appreciation post, there are two or three either raging or trying to point out other things and completely ignoring the fact that Rengar is getting the changes you asked for. Show some appreciation for the work that's being done here.
Thank you? Thank you for reworking a champion that's seen as weak by the majority, turned into something that's seen as weak by everyone? Why? Why should I thank someone that hasn't done a good job?

Quote:
Originally Posted by VaneQuish View Post
I've been playing a lot of Rengar from before the rework and after the rework, most of the changes are actually not that bad. Bola being a skill shot isn't to bad and its fast and wide which is great. His roar is still as good I've had no problems with this. His q is less than ideal right now which is what gives him a really weak early game. The attack speed missing from un-empowered q hurt as well as the lack of damage and slow Q speed in general makes for really uncomfortable lane phase. it's really hard to trade with the enemy laner with such a weak skill as it is now and double q seems to have a delay and just doesnt have the damage it used to. I think this is probably due to the skill scaling off champion level. His ultimate is alright but the biggest problem is trying to double Q after you land when the speed is just so slow for both Qs. The 1000 range is about the range of the leap so I'm alright with this as it is and have no problems with this change. All in all I feel as if the numbers could be tweaked a bit and to fix his Q a bit so its more appealing.
His bola is actually damn slow...
However, i'll agree. The fact it's a skillshot, isn't a bad thing. I've said this before, in my actual feedback comment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AntiSkillshot View Post
I'm going to say this. And it's going to be very, very broad.

Everything. His Q is... well... what is it? It's a attack reset, that doesn't reset. All it does is add pitiful damage to his AA until max rank. Let's not even start on how important that AS on the non-empowered Q was to Jungle Rengar. His W is the only "good" change. His E is quite unreliable. But, it being a skillshot isn't a bad thing. It's its slow speed and small hitbox that makes it unreliable. His ult is problematic. Not in the terms of someone knowing your there. It's the fact that they know you're there. Say, like, you're in a bush, and you ult. Any and all enemies in that 1K range, now are notified there's a Rengar, in stealth, nearby... even if they don't have a ward in said bush. Like, seriously, in this same patch, you fixed this for Fiddle and his passive.


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Drakonitus

Senior Member

04-05-2014

Played Rengar four more times today in my Brazilian account.

Well, I just think that Rengar should have his "assassin" description removed. He isn't a assassin anymore. He is a fighter that have a good stealth in his ultimate, but this is it.

Today I think that Rengar is a tier 2 or tier 3 champion. He isn't weak, but there's 6 or 7 champions who do anything that he can do but better.

I like so many things in this rework, like his new E, the Q don't working on turrets, but I just don't understand why make him a fighter if you don't give to him tools to stay alive in the fight. If you surprise the enemy with your ultimate you will be focused and will die. If the enemy have Zhonya, then there just no point in using your ultimate to initiate a fight.

This moment, Rengar is a champion who can start a fight with his E, then when enemy team focus you, you use your ultimate and try to kill some enemy since you're not focused anymore. And this is it.

I'm happy that "Rengar ult and some squishy die" doesn't exist anymore but Rengar wasn't used that much before in competitive, and now he will be even less picked in competitive.

I feel he needs one buff to his damage or tank capacity to become a tier 1 champion.


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Fried Rengar

Senior Member

04-05-2014

Hi, i'm someone with over 1.5k rengar games and is currently challenger on OCE

http://www.lolking.net/summoner/oce/351380

I'd just like to add my personal feedback, even if it doesn't get seen, may as well attempt to.

Firstly, I didn't want the rework much like others, but there is no denying it was kind of neccecary in terms of the toxic burst. It was insanely fun and probably why I mained him, but it was pretty bad for the enemy (higher elo people could manage it though, I must state).

Anywho onto opinions of the rework..

Bonetooth: Yeah I understand the reasoning for removing the free brute, all of the changes to it are fine, however just one thing, PLEASE GIVE THE 25 JUMP RANGE BACK, It allowed skilled rengar players to access hard jumps to dragon/nashor pit and was a player skill thing; you unlocked this ability with the stacks and being skilled enough to take advantage of it adds to his skill cap.

Q: It feels absolutely useless early on, you cant trade with anyone. In due to the dance that usually happens at toplane (and watching minion damage in highelo) you actually dont even have enough time to double Q somebody anyway, that said, it doesnt even do enough damage to be considerable. People like irelia, renekton and shyv easily ignore the damage and proceed to out trade you HARD. Later, its more useful, but early on it is literally 100% useless in lane. It is fine in jungle, however.

W: I don't see the point in having ferocity w do more damage than his normal w.. it just seems inconsistent because it already has a heal with it. Personally I think some of the damage on the ferocity w should be transferred to the normal w.

E: Currently, its all about this. It is just max e and try to spam it on the enemy around creeps. Its the only way to damage them. Overall its fine. But it currently feels like the only option. Even late game I find myself using e more than q.

R: This is good, but I really dont see the point in the notification when stealthed.. i mean.. whats the point of stealth then really.. You cant instagib so they dont need more warning. They really dont. It just aggregates rengar players majorly when they see the enemy running away and you cant even get in range. Please remove this....

As for the ult itself, its insanely powerful due to the ferocity you get.. but because of the above mentioned factor it actually feels like more of a "get 5 free ferocity" than a stealth assassin skill. The free 5 ferocity is the only reason he can really be of use later on due to how poor he is in laning/jungle now. (On a side note, have you seen how long it takes to clear blue/wolves at level 1 now? I got half HPed by blue buff with botlane assistance)

TL;DR Q is useless early game, he feels like a bola nidalee and ult is just free ferocity, (that exclamation mark.. just what.) Oh, and add 25 range to bonetooth.


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FighterRanger

Senior Member

04-05-2014

Dang, GD hates you Scruffy. Just posting to tell you I dont and stay positive!


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Hawkefire

Senior Member

04-05-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by AntiSkillshot View Post
Thank you? Thank you for reworking a champion that's seen as weak by the majority, turned into something that's seen as weak by everyone? Why? Why should I thank someone that hasn't done a good job?
Oh he did a good job alright. He did a damn good job at ruining Rengar and Skarner.

Don't forget that your champion isn't the only one that was trashed by Scruffy, Skarner was too....and I must say the Skarner thread has so much less feedback or even effort from Scruffy that it is appalling.
I must say, at least Rengar's kit might be salvageable, Skarner's kit cannot be salvaged, not in the slightest :P.


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Rockman

Senior Member

04-05-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockman View Post
I've only had 2 games as him, but I'll put my input.

Both games I jungled Rengar, and built Wriggles-> Trinity/Sunfire and did Visage or Banshees for MR. Aside from some funky moments where I miscalculated my damage, I usually knew how much I could do.

First game I maxed out Q first and then E, and it was ok but I had alot of trouble. Second game I maxed out E then W and it felt and went alot better.

The only consistent problem I felt like I hated was how clunky Q was. Otherwise I think Rengar is fine (though I bet the new W will get nerfed.)
Update now with more games played.

It seems like focusing on early damage is the wrong way to go imo. Better off making a small investement into damage, and then focusing on survivability. I've done really well with Wriggles/TF as my only damage aside from LW lategame. I think his itemization is more in line with Garen's which is weird... but I can understand it. Once you get the Q fixes in I think he'll be fine.


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Thunder God Olaf

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Senior Member

04-05-2014

The fact that these changes were made regardless are Stupid You cant turn malphite into an adc so why the **** would you try?

Am I coming off angry or whiny? Good I am mad, And anger is the natural response when people do something uncalled for, especially when it directly affects me.

Rengars design was fine. The fact that he can kill a carry like an assassin is fine. If he was too tanky adjust his sustain or free stats, if he did too much damage adjust the damage. But dont change his entire design just because a few people whine about getting blown the **** up.

Ask me how many games ive been in where people say Yi is OP or Tryn is op or kha is op leblanc is op But you dont change them?

kha in particular is a melee assassin that can carry games not only was his burst on par or better then old rengars but he has huge mobility AND escapes.

You guys hyped up the rengar VS kha even with a quest, I chose my side, Fell in love with the hunter aspect of rengar high damage all in was sexy as hell it made me want to play him all the time.

Now im left with a ****ty garen with less CC less damage mitigation and less mobility Unless in a bush lmfao Oh yea And I also dont have a ****ing ulti TO TOP IT ALL OFF HIS MAIN DAMAGE SKILL "Q" IS BUGGED RIGHT NOW LMAO and the response we get is (yea will fix it in the next patch)
So your telling me a champion without a ****ing ulti has a bugged main damage skill and your going to wait about a month to fix it? are you ****ing high?

since when is having an ult that doesnt do anything, Oh hey 15% MS cool lets try to catch a champ that has a n actual mobility skill like kha or blitz or lucian or ezreal graves vayne HEll anyone that really ****ing matters and you see how transparent the flaws in his "New kit" are.

The only reason he was even okay as a pick is because he could all in and because of his damage possibly get a kill , And if the team fight was not in his favor he could hardpush lanes.

You literally too everything that was remotely good about Rengar and broke it leaving us with a peice of **** that used to be one of my favorite champions

WHAT THE **** RIOT!

TL;DR You took him declawed him and handed him back to us with a ****ty smile on your face expecting us to ****ing say YES PLEASE GIVE US ANOTHER


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RagingDonger

Senior Member

04-05-2014

I'll be honest, The rework is most justified. Rengar players liked the insta-kill a carry from stealth, or the super split-push Rengar exploitation. You can't cater to them with a remotely balanced format.

Let's examine old rengar. If doing poorly or played badly rengar players would just resort to split pushing, and they destroyed towers really fast. If you sent a strong enough force to stop them they would back off, if you tried to catch them off-guard they would stealth and run off at ghost speed. More often they would out duel what is sent top.
Then there's the Q bug you guys forever being trying to fix since release. Up to last iteration, triple Q was still possible. It was an exploit, a bug and informed Rengar players knew this and sought to ride out the train as long as possible. Bonetooth Necklace used to be the most cost efficient item in the entire game by a long ways even disregarding the snowball stacks, even inspite of this it was largely overlooked by alot of these Rengar players. If you took the scaling AD alone, the item was beyond worth further more the extra juicy stack benefits were like icing on the cake.

I think the issue is Rengar players won't be satisfied because you allowed them resourseless hyper viability for so long they don't know what to do with a balanced champion. Inspite of this, overall the Rengar kit was actually BUFFED offensively. Stacks no longer lost, bonetooth now free, ultimate is better offensively, 'Indicator range' doesn't affect Rengar gameplay but give players quick reflex counterplay to a stealthed, heavy steroid, free sustain, assassin predator with no resource management..., at lvl 18 rengar has been buffed and is stronger inarguably in teamfights if you consider the stacking Q bug was never remote genuine balance.

Stop making champions so easy to exploit then nerfing them after these hens nestle in, you won't like their response. Those of us who play actually challenging champions feel as though yea.., let them bathe with water, we have to wash in blood. Rengar players be like, yo WhereTF is the milk, honey and lavender we're accustomed to bathing in.


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Rengarbage

Junior Member

04-05-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bachelord View Post
I'll be honest, The rework is most justified. Rengar players liked the insta-kill a carry from stealth, or the super split-push Rengar exploitation. You can't cater to them with a remotely balanced format.

Let's examine old rengar. If doing poorly or played badly rengar players would just resort to split pushing, and they destroyed towers really fast. If you sent a strong enough force to stop them they would back off, if you tried to catch them off-guard they would stealth and run off at ghost speed. More often they would out duel what is sent top.
Then there's the Q bug you guys forever being trying to fix since release. Up to last iteration, triple Q was still possible. It was an exploit, a bug and informed Rengar players knew this and sought to ride out the train as long as possible. Bonetooth Necklace used to be the most cost efficient item in the entire game by a long ways even disregarding the snowball stacks, even inspite of this it was largely overlooked by alot of these Rengar players. If you took the scaling AD alone, the item was beyond worth further more the extra juicy stack benefits were like icing on the cake.

I think the issue is Rengar players won't be satisfied because you allowed them resourseless hyper viability for so long they don't know what to do with a balanced champion. Inspite of this, overall the Rengar kit was actually BUFFED offensively. Stacks no longer lost, bonetooth now free, ultimate is better offensively, 'Indicator range' doesn't affect Rengar gameplay but give players quick reflex counterplay to a stealthed, heavy steroid, free sustain, assassin predator with no resource management..., at lvl 18 rengar has been buffed and is stronger inarguably in teamfights if you consider the stacking Q bug was never remote genuine balance.

Stop making champions so easy to exploit then nerfing them after these hens nestle in, you won't like their response. Those of us who play actually challenging champions feel as though yea.., let them bathe with water, we have to wash in blood. Rengar players be like, yo WhereTF is the milk, honey and lavender we're accustomed to bathing in.
I appreciate your opinion, but if Rengar was OP, too easy, or was extraordinarily viable, then why didn't he see LCS play, or more importantly, why did he see such minimal high elo play?

Also, I would argue that he was nerfed offensively (being a Rengar player).