Rengar Thread of Bolas and Roaring

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hashinshin

Senior Member

04-05-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
The Q from brush will be working better after our next set of changes as well. Also Q does currently and will still reset his auto attack.
But you used to be able to leap, wait, then Q. The leap in itself was an auto, so pressing Q after leaping reset that auto and apon landing you'd do auto+Q damage.

Removing this has substantially decreased the power of his laning phase and he's now losing to pretty much everyone who knows how to play their champion. Shyvana easily out trades him, Trundle's Q is literally just supped up version of Rengar Q, and often by the time you even get 5 ferocity you're at too low life to risk an all in now.

Rengar can go even in the laning phase now (unless it's against a really weak laner like Zed) but Rengar is NOT a lane game champion and because of that will fall off. Now if you want to give him 95 HP/lvl and let people build damage items on him or increase his base armor or give him HP/5 back then that's great, but as it is now as Rengar you're forced to go full tank and just spam bolas off your ult to initiate fights and hope your team is fed enough to make up for the fact you do little more than tank and initiate.

Altogether he's not as bad as people make him out to be, but he's too weak right now in the laning phase, and doesn't scale hard enough (and no, again, he can't build damage since he doesn't have Jax level surivability, nor Zed level AD ratios.)


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samdxz

Junior Member

04-05-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolan View Post
It's probably too late for proposing changes, but here I go anyway.[/B]
1) Give Q back the tower-hitting functionality as well as giving base Q back it's AS boost. To prevent the previous burst assassin, turn the extra physical damage into a bleed like Talon Q. This way, Rengar cannot instantly jump and assassinate someone, but his damage over 5 seconds is better because he can still keep on attacking with an AS boost after the initial hit. You can even make it so attacking a Bleeding target either refreshes or amplifies the Bleed. It would fit with Rengar thematically because cats lacerate and make you bleed. This bleed damage would not apply to towers, which would allow him to use Q on towers for Ferocity and AS, but not by causing free extra damage to the tower.

2) If Q becomes a bleed, keep Empowered Q's burst, since Rengar would need some sort of way to hit hard outside of sustained autos and bleed. Move the 10% AD away and give him something to promote fighting, like Grievous Wounds. That way Rengar can choose to make his Bleed stick via reduced regen from EmpQ's hit

3) Give the 10% AD to EmpW. Rengar already goes ham with this defensive ability, so if he chooses to heal because he is low on HP (Heal boosted by % missing HP), he probably would want to hit back hard as well, so the 10% AD would amplify his lifesteal-boosted autoattacks (because who doesn't buy lifesteal on Rengar? Even Machete gives life on hit) Maybe even make it so Rengar's empW is like Olaf's W, empowered healing effects on Rengar for X seconds after empowered W, making his lifesteal/on-hit more potent.

4) Probably nerf Bola's slow. Rengar may or may not get far too sticky. An 80% slow for 2.5s is goodness gracious, way too scary. Also possibly Rooting? Even scarier.

5) Speaking of the Bola, it's kind of slow for a 1000 range skillshot. Missing an empowered bola punishes Rengar really hard since he uses up all 5 ferocity stacks for it. Can it gain Elise's Cocoon's buff and also give vision while flying and during the 2.5s it slows an enemy? Either/or, or maybe even both.

6) Already mentioned in the BTN section, but make BTN into Rengar's passive and change how the stack system works. I'm sure people would prefer better bonuses there, at the cost of being able to lose stacks.

That's my feed back I guess. It probably won't go in since Rengar is already changed on live, but I can at least try.
such a good idea, riot do this, it will add damage to q while keeping his turret pushing power low.


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Messaiga

Senior Member

04-05-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
We have an ult change coming in the next patch that will not alert enemies if you wouldn't be visible to them outside of stealth. This is really big for when he is ganking or approaching his targets from a brush or near walls. It was pretty silly to alert the enemy when Rengar wouldn't have been visible out of stealth anyway, you guys were totally right on this one.

Also, the Q and Empowered Q attack animations are getting significantly sped up. This will fix a lot of the "my Q didn't go off" cases, and it's a non trivial buff in his dps output over time.

This isn't the end, but it's what I can say is coming with certainty right now.
Sounds great! I actually really like the Rengar Rework, but there are just a few tiny changes I think would improve Rengar immensely:

Q: Can we increase the base damage on this? At level 1 the 20 additional physical damage isn't very noticeable.

E: Is it possible to make this reveal the target? It would make jungling with him so much better (and more interesting).


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omgmath

Junior Member

04-05-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nureya View Post
bump
I can promise you that a global Rengar ult (warning) would be much more harmful to Rengar than the current setup. People would run to their towers or each other immediately and Rengar's ult would be rendered useless.


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Cacahao

Member

04-05-2014

http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs11/i/20...andedAlien.jpg

Ooommmm!!! I summon you RiotScruffy! Let me know what you think about a more spameable Q!!!


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Canstainer

Senior Member

04-05-2014

Can i ask why the critical Hit was remove from his Q?
Why can Gank plank do? and rengar dont ?


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Drakonitus

Senior Member

04-05-2014

So in almost all teamfights I was killed before killing the enemy.

Rengar isn't tank, even with tank items he can't tank like Shyvana or Renekton.
Also he isn't a assassin, he can't kill anyone fast as any assassin as Khazix or Fizz.

In this moment he can only pe played as a fighter, and we have a lot of better fighters at this moment.

Well, I will refund Rengar, but good luck with this rework.


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Im so bad yuck

Senior Member

04-05-2014

I think that the entire problem with Rengar at the very moment is that he is balanced around having 20 stacks, which might not even happen during a game, therefore rendering him weaker than most champions. What I think should be done is to involve the risk of buying this necklace again by bringing the stack-losing mechanic at cost of making him stronger than usual if he hunts successfully.
Well, that and having the Head of Kha'Zix actually make him Kha'Zix level overloaded (in comparison to a usual champion kit).


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mogonk

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Senior Member

04-05-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
The Q from brush will be working better after our next set of changes as well. Also Q does currently and will still reset his auto attack.
I guess it's just so slow that it's hard to tell?


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Canstainer

Senior Member

04-05-2014

Bring back the critical Hit +Q