Rengar Thread of Bolas and Roaring

First Riot Post
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Wero34

Senior Member

04-05-2014

I propose only 2 changes to rengar

1.- Q - Savagery: 20/40/60/80/100 (+1.0/1.05/1.10/1.15/1.20 attack damage)cooldowns 6/5.5/5/4.5/4 seconds
Q - Empowered Savagery: 20-235 (+1.5 attack damage) based on champion level
+50-101% attack speed based on champion level for 5 seconds
+10% attack damage for 5 seconds

The only change i propose for his Q is to return him the AS on his regular Q 30/35/40/45/50% attack speed for 4. And to help his jungle add a passive on his Q a Placebo effect, rengar q damage heal him for 10% of damage done to monsters.

2.- R - Thrill of the Hunt: -Rengar only gains movement speed when moving toward enemy champions +15% movement speed
- Breaking stealth, Rengar gains +25/45/45% movement speed for 5 seconds
- Breaking stealth, Rengar gains 1 ferocity per second for 5 seconds
- Targets are alerted when Rengar is within 1000 range and stealthed, but do not gain vision of him.

Heres is where i think is the core change i propose to make Rengar fit in his pride hunter role and add a counterplay at the same time:

- First change his stealth mechanic to an Advanced Camouflage.- I mean when Trill of the hunt is active, whenever rengar enter in a bush he go for stealth mode for 2 seconds with a 2 secs delay to re-use it in 1 ult(only 2 stealth chances when ulting), buff his ult duration from 5 secs to 6 secs. And oviously take away enemy warning.

- Second.- take away his ult leap, instead buff his move speed to 30/40/50% Movespeed and +15% when moving toward enemy champion, if Rengar Kill/assist he get a 2 secs Movespeed bonus not stakeable with bonetooth bonus.

- And last and utility change.- Just make rengar reveal stealthed champions around Rengar and grant vision in a range of 1000 while ulting, this to add an estrategical playmode in jungle to engage or escape with a leap on monsters from just some bushes, rengar is in play, be afraid to enter in his jungle.

And for God sake, hunters are assassins not tanks. Rengar must do his natural job, to get a prey. Rengar must fit in the same tier level as khazix, they r supouse to be nemesis, Assassins nemesis


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

ShadeCrenshaw

Member

04-05-2014

If the Q is to remain how it is now, no speed buff, and remains at this pathetic AD ratio, then it needs to be able to affect turrets.

Or did you guys forget about Nasus being able to 4 shot turrets with a farmed up Q?

You are searching for and fixing problems where there weren't any.

Rengars kit was fine as it was, yes I'll agree that that the triple Q damage was kinda insane, but you never saw Rengar triple Q turrets now did ya?

I see absolutely no reason to keep Rengar's Q, at its current form, from effecting turrets as well.

As I see it, if you make it impossible for Rengar's Q to damage turrets, it is ONLY FAIR, that you do the same nerf to Nasus Q, Garen Q, Darius W, Blitzcrank E, Hecarim E, Shyvana's Q and Wukongs Q just to name a few.

After all, all of those are functionally almost, if not completely indentical to Rengar's Q, so if RENGAR Qing towers was oh so toxic, then that means EVERY ability that can deal bonus damage to towers is toxic, right?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

alfavhunter

Senior Member

04-05-2014

How to fix current rengar (not going over specific damage just mechanics)

Q return attack speed (100% all ranks), make it last .5 second, increasing duration by .5 seconds each time he lands a basic attack on a non champion or structure, up to 5 seconds (meaning using it on a champion will only effect the Q speed but using it on a minion or monster will grant a stacking AS because Q is an AA, the duration of the AS is short enough that rengar will only benefit from it while attacking minions or monsters because he has to keep attacking them to keep it up

What does this do?

Speeds up his basic Q animation, returns jungle clear, and gives him some much needed QoL for jungle and minion pushing (doesn't help vs tower push)

Let Q effect towers but generate no ferocity (meaning he can't get to full ferocity for omg power push without enemies nearby to generate ferocity on)

FQ effects turrets

W

Remove the armor mr bonus

Replace with flat 15% damage reduction for 3 seconds that also gives 10/15/20/25/30% MS for the duration

This damage reduction is increased by 5% per champion or monster (big or small) struck, up to 30% (bonus for striking more enemy champions is they all still get damaged

FW, let be honest this is not a viable ferocity option past lvl 6 unless you are ap rengar, this needs to be changed, it's supposed to improve survival so her is a much more viable option that makes rengar have some escape as we'll

FW new effect, rengar gains 50% damage reduction for 3 seconds, this will replace the current W not stack, for those 3 seconds rengar gains 15+5/lvl% MS (105 at lvl 18) this movement speed reduces over the duration (the initial speed will Always be stronger than normal W)

E and FE need to reveal the target (allowing some new jumps for jungle camps and brush)

R remove the (!) warning this is no longer needed now that rengar cannot delete enemy champions and has to take time to do so

FR (new) rengars FR does not share CD and is available at all ferocity charges at when R is available

Rengar can use FR to gain unseen predator for 3 seconds or till used, if the leap is not used he is refunded 3 ferocity, if the leap is used on an enemy champion he gains 1 ferocity and his next ability if it effects that target within 3 seconds, will generate an additional point of ferocity (improving his sticking power at the cost of damage)


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

RadiantWings

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

04-05-2014

Bola is incredibly unrewarding and a bit awkward to hit. 1000 range is 100 less than other "gap control" skillshots like Lee Sin or Lux (I constantly throw Bolas from Lux Q range only to be sorely disappointed when they fizzle out *right* before hitting an enemy.)

We were promised that Bola would do more damage with the rework, but the increase is so miniscule that it's almost unnoticeable. I'd much prefer it if Bola had a high base AD scaling so that it actually feels sort of rewarding for hitting it.

As another point with the Lee Sin comparison, Lee Sin's Q goes super fast, has better scaling on one-half of his ability, has a better cooldown that makes it not as punishing to miss, and the gapcloser is a lot more useful than Bola's slow.

So in summary

-Bola needs 100 range (don't know why you nerfed it to 1000)
-Bola needs more damage or more utility if it's not going to deal damage (like an interrupt effect)
-Bola needs a shorter cooldown (Make it 8 seconds at rank 5, same as before, just starting from 10 seconds rather than 12.)

Also

If Rengar's damage is going to be spread out over time, then you could at least buff his total damage to release Rengar levels. Release Rengar typically had infuriating burst or skirmish patterns which were nerfed through numbers rather than mechanics. Now that you've claimed to fix the mechanics, bring back those numbers.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

omgmath

Junior Member

04-05-2014

After playing some games of Rengar (on various accounts) to acquire a true feel for the changes, I have a few suggestions:

I can understand his Q not applying to structures, but I feel that removing the AS buff from his normal Q was an excessive nerf to his pushing and dueling potential. (Also, I think he should still be able to stack ferocity on towers.)
Additionally, his Q feels extraordinarily lacking. The empowered Q feels very weak, and his ability to assassinate has severely dwindled. I think a ratio buff to his empowered, and small damage buff to his unempowered q may be necessary to keep his assassin identity true.

My other concerns were addressed by Scruffy (ult warning etc.) so I don't have much complaint there.

Thanks!


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Cacahao

Member

04-05-2014

To be honest, I think that the kit of rengar is well suited for his new role, let's call it "heavy assasin", an assasin that is near of the fighter but still has something that make him an assasin. In rengar's case it is his R.

As I said before, more than Q being feel super slug, the main problem to me is that his primary option of damage feels a bit lackluster, remember that every skill of rengar is a situational-based skill: Q for damage, W for sustain/tankiness, E for CCing, R for utility. For the rest of his kit CDs are right, but his Q, that feels like "this is my minibursty skill that builds up ferocity" have a CD that is a bit long for what it seems to be.

Anyway, I'm not good at things like "game healt" so maybe this could be bad for the game in general, but my proposal is to reduce slighty his Q cooldown.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

TheNoodleNinja

Junior Member

04-05-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrimsonAxests View Post
It's almost as if, now hold on here guys, people are being toxic because they dislike the rework :O. The fact that all people supporting it have more downvotes than likes and that the post itself has the most downvotes of all should show that. Not like it matters what the league community says anyway, never once have i seen riot actually change their plans in the players interest, so making a post on how to improve rengar is pointless. Oh how riot has fallen


The reason people dislike the rework is because Rengar has a bruiser kit now when he's meant to be an assassin...


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Pulsetron

Senior Member

04-05-2014

Scruffs, Rengar doesn't have an escape because his kit has something better. His kit gives synergy to one playstyle that hasn't been mentioned.

Rengar kills everybody. Rengar leaps onto a squishy (ADC/APC/Support/Assassin). If he's in the middle of the team then He'll roar then gain a truckton of resists, then proceed to kill everybody else if he's built a RH. If not, then he'll walk away, then chuck a bola to slow any followers.

Rengar's fantasy is to stand in a river of blood every team fight but stopping Carries. His Roar should let him take a beating because he lacks an escape.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Nureya

Member

04-05-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nureya View Post
YOUR WRONG HERE. You can use that global ultimate also to apply fear/ pressure to lanes. similar to when nocturne,shen, TF, pantheon when they turn 6. Follow up the ultimate acitivation with 150% mobility boost for rengar to compensate for such activation.

And honestly, you can also make plays and baits before hand to make it such that its too late for the lane your ganking to retreat. its not junglier vs enemy players. its junglier + teammates vs. enemy players.

Finally you could give a vision effect like nocturne. This gives his ultimate a quality of REAL RENGAR and real prey feeling.
bump


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

CaptainWinget

Junior Member

04-05-2014

Scruffy, two things were nerfed when you altered his Q. First is removal of attack speed which just makes the Q animation very awkward, for now I will hold off on my judgement on that point until you release the "new animation" for it. Secondly not hitting towers is really frustrating I played a game against a Tryndamere and managed to first blood him followed by 5 consecutive kills on him in lane. That was fine he just split pushed all game and won because I couldn't even compete with his pushing and as for catching him he would spin away as soon as I jumped on him because of the exclamation mark on my ult. The inability to hit a tower with Q makes me not want to even target towers until my auto attack damage gets high enough for me to kill the tower safely instead of standing there for about a minute (often times having to attack it for 3 consecutive waves). You told us you do not want Rengar to be a "safe split pusher". To be a safe split pusher he needs his old stealth back and his Q hitting towers, you removed the Q hitting towers but also removed that safe escape, you had to remove, one of these not both. What is your opinion of Tryndamere then, right now he can ult away if he needs to or just spin after he 5 shots a turret. If I can not out split push a target I need a way to kill him and as of now I can not chase him (I currently run mobility boots and alacrity for chasing), if I throw my bola I lose movement speed because of the nerf done to mobility boots, so we both get slowed.... If you want bola to be a chasing tool instead of harass in lane, let me jump to my bola'd target if I desire like lee sin. Rengar's mobility chasing down a lane without bushes is so terrible now because he gets blocked by enemy minions or will finally catch his prey after you chase down the whole map. You can't have a chase be the entire rifts length, because then you just get collapsed upon. If I am a hunter and you want me chasing now instead of instantly killing someone so I wouldn't have to chase in the first place, I need better hunting tools....