Rengar Thread of Bolas and Roaring

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IonDragonX

Senior Member

04-04-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
I'm much more keen on the idea that if he wouldn't be visible, the warning will not appear. This rewards clever paths and approaches when ulting.
Yes!! This is exactly what it needs! Wholeheartedly agree!

YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES!


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B00tyWarriorr

Senior Member

04-04-2014

I don't wanna be mean but Rengar is utter trash. I feel worthless at every stage of the game...He has nothing fun about him, thematically he feels pretty ****ty too. Maybe instead of asking us what we think because the first page gives you a pretty good idea of the next 70+ pages, you should explain the reasoning behind these changes. What was your philosophy behind these changes and do you think you succeeded in creating what you envisioned?


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thefifeman

Senior Member

04-04-2014

TL;DR Remove stealth, add Poppy-style mark, make sticking to mark easy and generate fury while mark is still alive.

I do have to back Scruffy and the Dev's on this one: Rengar just looks like a fighter, not an assassin. All the assassins in the media and whatnot are thin, agile, and typically darker colored. Rengar is none of these things, being bulky as a wrestler, lumbering, and mostly white and grey. I do feel that when I used to play him, he felt like a ferocious bruiser, not a stab in the back and run away character.

In that regard, I feel that he shouldn't have stealth at all. In the wild, a lion waits on his prey for the right moment, then bursts out of that bush like a cheetah on crack, attacking until his prey falls, and I feel that's how Rengar should play in game. My version of his ult would take away his stealth, but give him an initial activation where he would mark a target (think Poppy), then two button presses to let him jump on his next auto-attack (same distance as passive bush jumping), allowing him to stick to a target. While the mark is active, maybe 8 seconds total, and the mark going away when the target dies, he'd have a movespeed buff while moving towards them and would generate ferocity, signifying he's going balls to the wall to kill his one prey. Other than that change to his ult, I don't see anything else about his character needing changing, at least not anything I have experience with. I like the criticism of identifying two things that made split pushing too powerful on him, but you took away both instead of just one. With my ult change, he should get back his AS buff on normal Q. Besides, split pushing is like laying a trap for your quarry, make them come to you.


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SquirrelEnFeu

Junior Member

04-04-2014

@RiotScruffy

I really like the more bruiser oriented rengar. But there is some detail I dont like on this rework. Mainly because i feel like i have less option to choose. First, in the role and build order he should take. In an other hand, in the spell order who will be the best.

First, at some time u could build TANKgar, ASSASINgar or BruiserGar. Now i have the impression, there is only BruiserGar that will work fine.

Now, for the spell

Q- For the q i think it should work on tower. Without the AA speed buff on is q, rengar have already lost a lot of splitpushing power for destroying tower.

Empowered W- His healing fall off hard in late game, and i feel like if i want to Heal Asap to stay alive, the best way is to Empowered Q with Hydra. So the Empowered Q will be always the better answer in late game because of his scaling.

Empowered E- Is a slow skill shot like the one of Morgana, but when u fail it u pay to much the price or is not enough rewarding.

The biggest problem to me is the Coldown of W and E is to high light game, it would be awesome if we could have a scaling. the W could go to 13 sec to 9 instead of 12 and E could drop to 7 or 6. The reason is that i feel like I HAVE TO MAX Q for getting my stack faster in a fight, instead of choosing what path i want to use in lane.

Maxing Q for an aggressive lane

Maxing W for a tanky, passive lane

Maxing E for an harrasing or for a rengar behind.

I have played rengar as a Toplane and Jungle

PLEASE SCRUFFY BUFF W AND E

And sry for my english, this is not ma first language! :P


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NicolasWasTaken

Senior Member

04-04-2014

Did Scruffy even tested Rengar in Top he sucks ass its almost as if nobody tried the champ before realising...


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MGS Mantis

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Senior Member

04-04-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanessa Smith View Post
I also dont understand Riot wanting to kill his assassin potential even though Kha'Zix can leap in from fog of war, kill your ADC, leap out or at someone else and having a possible 3 mini stealths with 50% damage reduction. Rengar has zero escapes after ulting and if he failed he was done for. I liked his role as a split-pusher who could pick off those who strayed too far.

And for those saying we are just yelling at Scruffy without proper feedback, we tried. Check the 200 page Rengar rework thread.
This is a perfect example. Rengar could have used some minor fixes but all of this? Was it necessary? He was my main and now wtf. You wanted him to have counterplay? What about LB? or Kha? who can end squishes in 2 abilites and then get to safety.


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Fishywtf

Member

04-04-2014

So I just played some games on smurf that's level 12.... I can't even carry it. I struggle to go even and that says something. Only 1 game I went positive and that was playing as a tank support kill stealing... This Kat is roadkill


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NewDudeOverThere

Member

04-04-2014

people here want a badass rengar. what they want is a rengar that goes in, kill someone, gets out alive. even if he could only get away with 1 hp left in his life bar.

revert back q changes but still make it a modified damage and keep the %ad but tone it done a bit.

for r make him gain ferocity stacks but a bit slower than after exiting ult. ex during stealth 1 feroc per
3 sec. >>> exiting stealth 1 feroc per 1 sec.

on the alert thing, how about instead of making it constant, you only show it for for 1 sec. it reappears only if Rengar moves away from you (you leaving the area indicating where he can jump) then comes back near you (you re entering the circle indicating where he can jump). it does not reappear if the champion didn't leave the the circle indicating where he can jump so that means you follow him around

i want to see changes in pbe for Rengar PLEASE


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AndovisQt Junior

Junior Member

04-04-2014

Honestly I am kind of frustrated that even though it was communicated by testers on the PBE that Rengar's Q was lacking I don't feel like it really got looked at. In addition I personally think that his rework was released onto live servers way too early, was actually surprised that the rework was being released in 4.5 because it had not felt like too much tuning had been done, just bug fixes and a little tuning to his ult.

From my matches today, he currently has a extremely weak early and mid game from a top lane perspective. Once he reaches late game he is okay, but at the late game point he has to have a good amount of items to be useful.

As for his jungle it just feels slow clearing until you can get a hand full of items, his ganks are pretty good as long as you can land your Empowered E, but again he is pretty weak early game/mid in the jungle and would have no where near the same fighting chance pre-rework, if he was to be invaded by the other jungler, or was caught counterjungling. He ends up being fine late game, (mostly due to Feral Fire stacks though...).

For top lane I run Merc. Threads, Bloodthirstier, Blade of the Ruin King or Hydra, Last Whisper, Black Cleaver, Trinity Force (assassin build).

For jungle I run the almost exact same build for the same purpose the only difference is Hydra/Botrk is replaced with Feral Fire.


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Raasu

Senior Member

04-04-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
There are a few people suggesting that the warning from his ult should be global. We thought about this idea actually but it was actually too punishing for Rengar because it gave his opponents too much time to react, and essentially removed all of his ganking power. Enemies would all just back up to their tower before he could engage, so we went with a much shorter warning time frame.

I'm much more keen on the idea that if he wouldn't be visible, the warning will not appear. This rewards clever paths and approaches when ulting.
Secret Agent Rengar wall hug... I'm thinking loading screen tips - "Remember to avoid line of sight and stick to the shadows to avoid detection!"

OT - Reduce delay between Q's on double Q, make ult warning visible only if you are within sight range, and allowing Q to hit towers again (reason being overall nerfs to the cat plus damage nerf to Q to balance damage to towers) are the changes I'd look at. All very promising changes.

Also, I have a balance suggestion: Maybe if you were to let Rengar's Ferocity Q ratio scale somewhere between (+155/160/165/170/175%) and (+160/170/180/190/200%) he would still be able to turn into an assassin late game with a fairly balanced not as bursty early game. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this one.

EDIT: Clearly the Ferocity Q buff would be a large chunk of damage added... I would personally be willing to lose the percent AD increase to compensate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scruffy Pls
Savagery - Once again affects towers.

Empowered Savagery - AD ratio now scales: (160/170/180/190/200%).
10% AD bonus removed to compensate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scruffy PLS
We decided after some Q&A and internal discussion that some of the changes on Rengar's Q were unnecessary after the other changes were implemented. We've reverted the unnecessary changes and changed Rengar's Ferocity Q scaling to allow him to build into a late game assassin once more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by You know you want to.
Thrill of the Hunt - Enemies now only alerted to Rengar's presence if he is within their vision range.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The world would be a better place...
Enemies being alerted to Rengar being nearby just didn't feel the same. This change allows healthy gameplay while providing the ability to sneak up on your prey using clever positioning.