Rengar Thread of Bolas and Roaring

First Riot Post
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Paintank

Senior Member

04-04-2014

I too agree that overall, the Rengar rework was a let down, and here's a couple reasons why:

1.) Identity:
- you, Riot, have changed his identity to something that no body wanted. It should be clear from reading all of these post rework threads that we, as the community, do not want the champions we love's identity to be stolen. Rengar, for example, has been an assassin since day one (aside from the tank rengar that grew in popularity as Renekton did), but his whole identity has changed since his rework. Instead of listening to the community to hear what they wanted, you simply said "no, we want him to be a fighter, we don't want him to be an assassin," even though his whole kit says he should be an assassin.

How to fix-
Change a few things that will be outlined in the rest of the post.

2.) "Q" Nerfs:
The "Q" nerfs were very strong, and I can't say that they shouldn't have been done, because they truly were justified. The only qualm that I have with it is that it doesn't proc the extra damage on the turret. Taking away his extra damage AND his attack speed boost while pushing towers makes his tower pushing exceptionally weak. I know you're going to say "but he had too much, too much ability to escape, and too much pushing power." So why not do one OR the other instead of slamming him hard with that. Again, you're changing the whole identity of the champ. we don't pick him so that we can go into team fights like a predator from AVP, we pick him to fill the split push/mobile assassin role.

How to fix-
Allow his "Q" to do the damage, but don't allow it to give him stacks of ferocity or use his ferocity imbued "Q". Just treat it like a normal "Q" with a normal cool down. Also, like everyone else said, that bug has to go. It's very frustrating.

3:Ultimate:
This is the number one thing that I hate the most about the rework. That silly notice that tells the enemy that Rengar is in the area. Do you realize that as soon as that is used, the enemy immediately knows that an engage is happening or they just run back to tower. In your attempt to make his ult have counter play, you made his ult basically useless. I don't say that litely, it's worthless now. Let me ask you this: Teemo's invisibility told the enemy that he was in the area or that he has mushrooms out, do you think that would allow for counterplay more, or would it just kill anyone trying to use Teemo's invisibility? It completely contradicts what it's intended purpose was. It's worse than having a ward sitting on top of him as he's running to your lane because you don't even need a ward to know he's in the area.

Just think about it logically, enemy Rengar is in top lane. You're in mid lane. Rengar disappears from top lane, but then you see the warning that he's in the area. "Ok, he was in top lane, but now I see that he's used his ult and I'm the closest one to his lane, I should leave." Bam, Rengar has wasted his ult, and no one was even close to being ganked. Or another scenario, there's a standoff of a 4 (Rengars team [RT]) vs 5 (Not Rengars team [NRT]). NRT is pushing past river in mid lane, all of RT is visible with the exception of Rengar (who was just in another lane farming). Suddently NRT sees the message of Rengar being in the area, NRT now drops a pink ward and waits. Rengar then has to either engage as a 1 v 5 and hope he doesn't die immediately before his team gets there, fall back to his team and try to engage with them, or wait for his team to engage before getting too close to the enemy team. All of the above, comes out with his ult doing more harm than good. If he engages 1 v 5, he's going to blow up and no one will be worse for the ware. If he falls back to his team and waits for them to engage, his ult will be down and he's going to be far weaker. If he waits for his team to engage and then run in, his ult could possibly ware off his invisibility making him unable to leap, or his team will take tons of unneeded damage simply because it's a 5 v 4.

How to fix-
option 1:
Remove that stupid warning from the ult

option 2:
Make him non invisible and remove the stupid warning from his ult.

Overall, I would rather be some super fast demon cheetah running towards my enemy to get the drop on them, than have them know I was coming. To be forwarned is to be forarmed, and that is not at all something that I want to have my enemy knowing about.


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NoGfFeelings

Junior Member

04-04-2014

I've legit never lost lane as Rengar, but now I can't even play him. Who the hell just wakes up in the morning planning to ruin the game for people? I mained Rengar before you literally shoved your arm up his ass and turned him into another one of your puppets. Thinking about quitting league.


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LeFrenchAvenger

Junior Member

04-04-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
There are a few people suggesting that the warning from his ult should be global. We thought about this idea actually but it was actually too punishing for Rengar because it gave his opponents too much time to react, and essentially removed all of his ganking power. Enemies would all just back up to their tower before he could engage, so we went with a much shorter warning time frame.

I'm much more keen on the idea that if he wouldn't be visible, the warning will not appear. This rewards clever paths and approaches when ulting.
I actually like this idea. Sounds to me like Nocturne's ult, where all lane's suddenly have the option of back off or risk getting jumped, as no one knows where he really is.


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Ryan Choi

Member

04-04-2014

I just shake my head in sadness to put down my kitty kat rango. Not viable to bring my kitty into challenger games anymore. I was okay with nerfs upon nerfs upon nerfs. This rework was where I give up. Things that needs fixing. Q should be able to hit turrets because the damage and attack speed is nerfed. W should really be scaling of AD instead of AP. E should have a faster missile speed. <-- one of the slowest skill shot in game. R needs to have a shorter indicator range because it makes no sense for the indicator to be so much longer than jump range. The transition from normal to empowered skills needs to flow smoother. It takes too long to be able to use the same skills in succession. There is currently no role rengar exceeds in so let's just wait until 1 of these changes gets implemented.


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Moons

Senior Member

04-04-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
Just fixed this, will be in the next patch for sure.
I dont want to sound like a spolied kid here, but are we talking about patch in a normal 1 month routine, like 4.6? The 4.5 has just happened, it seems like a lot of time to wait for something that is already done.


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Sparzon

Junior Member

04-04-2014

I extremely prefer the assassin type rengar over the "fighter" one. There seems to be a delay for his q and is more noticeable when attempting to double Q. The fact that rengars E is a skillshot is acceptable but the fact that it's his only form of cc creates a problem. His ult... well to make it short it's horrible. Overall, I'd say there should be a fix in his Q and ult.


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thefifeman

Senior Member

04-04-2014

I've been following this whole conversation, and the biggest problem I see people having with Rework Rengar is his ultimate. In my opinion, when you look on the real world plains, a lion doesn't turn invisible and walk up to a zebra, he waits in cover until an opportune time, then bursts out like a cheetah on crack, pounces on it and messes up that zebra's day, which he also doesn't do in just one or two hits. My thoughts would be to rework the ult into a massive MS steroid while moving towards an enemy, let him jump to them when he's in normal bush-jumping-range, and have it continually generate ferocity over a time, but have no invisibility whatsoever. This allows Rengar to generate ferocity while approaching, and while fighting, making him fit into your fighter role like you want. It would also allow for more procs of his empowered abilities, making the fight really feel like Rengar is giving it his all to get that kill.


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eatsgokuforlunch

Senior Member

04-04-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Choi View Post
I just shake my head in sadness to put down my kitty kat rango. Not viable to bring my kitty into challenger games anymore. I was okay with nerfs upon nerfs upon nerfs. This rework was where I give up. Things that needs fixing. Q should be able to hit turrets because the damage and attack speed is nerfed. W should really be scaling of AD instead of AP. E should have a faster missile speed. <-- one of the slowest skill shot in game. R needs to have a shorter indicator range because it makes no sense for the indicator to be so much longer than jump range. The transition from normal to empowered skills needs to flow smoother. It takes too long to be able to use the same skills in succession. There is currently no role rengar exceeds in so let's just wait until 1 of these changes gets implemented.
Hi Ninfang I was waiting for you to show up. I was watching your videos pre rework and this makes me sad :/
I hope they do something about this dried up carcass they have created :/


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Moons

Senior Member

04-04-2014

Also, have you considered you went overboard with the nerfs to splitpushing? I mean, I do agree that it was toxic. But let's see what you've removed.

-Ultimate as an escape ability - warning indicator, speed buff working only when moving towards enemy champion, a long time it takes to enter stealh upon taking damage

-Q damage on turrets, empowered q damage on turrets, attack speed bonus on non-empowered q

You've not only removed the toxicity of his pushing in my opinion. You've completely removed the possibility of his pushing.

I think that is the problem with both Skarner and Rengar reworks. The toxic parts of their kits have been removed, but there is not much to compensate for it nor for the nerfs they've received due to to having toxic parts in their kits.


Have you considered making his empowered Q working on turrets?


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eatsgokuforlunch

Senior Member

04-04-2014

I said this before and I will say this again REDS if you think you made him a bruiser You are VERY wrong
he sucks at every role you can imagine - subpar bruiser , assassin oh jk jk , tank lol nope