Rengar Thread of Bolas and Roaring

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HeWhoHates

Member

04-04-2014

I was just thinking about this. I liked the idea of his ult not going into stealth immediately. I thought his original Ult rework was going to be like this; Rengar goes into a super raged mode buffed AD AS MS leaps on target (everyone sees him coming) if things get hairy he would have a secondary ultimate that would stealth him, which would be his escape.

I don't mind the skill shot. I don't mind the Bone Tooth trinket.

The way his Q's work and how his Ult works is not fluid, it's all jacked up.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Yustice View Post
What happened to the proposed changes from last summer? The changes actually seemed great like being able to chain together Q's and His ult would have two phases, one with speed, and one with stealth. The bola was still going to be a skillshot, but its missile speed would've been faster. Then they scrap all of those changes like they usually do, and we end up with Rengar minus all of the fun things that made him Rengar(Triple Q's, Deleting someone in a fight and having to figure out how to escape, turret destruction via his Q, and his ult feeling more fluid). One of the only good things out of this rework is moving the Bonetooth Necklace onto a trinket slot. Sorry if I sound pissed, but it's because I am and this wasnt the way to go. He shouldve kept his identity of early game snowballer, late game assassin/splitpusher. If only he had the amount of fans/mains of Lee Sin, they may not have gone through with this nonsense.


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Th3 Hunter

Senior Member

04-04-2014

My opinion of the Rengar rework was that it wasn't needed at all. But since it's done, here are my thoughts.

I don't care about any of the other changes. The ult changes, the W bugs or the E bola. That's not what matters. The only thing that really matters in this patch is his Q change. His damage is absolutely horrendous. I see people telling me that the damage is enough to obliterate a squishy still. Please post a video that shows this. And not a video of a normal 5v5 low ELO game. I want to see a video at a high level of play because that's what really matters at the end of the day, that displays Rengar as a viable pick.
I keep thinking I'm missing something but I've played the new Rengar over and over at the most assasinish way possible. Even in normal games, I've had less than average success. In ranked, it would never work out.

I just feel that out of every champion, why was it necessary to change Rengar to this extent? I think the reason why this Rengar rework upsets me mainly are two reasons: 1.) It completely made Rengar different than what he was before. 2.)It made him overall weaker.

I realize there is a team that develops each individual champion and I'm not sure the exact criteria that is looked at when reworking a champion but there are other champions that should be fixed before others. Noone ever bans Rengar. Ever. I'm a Plat 3 Main Rengar and I might have seen it ban once in all my games played. Rengar's style was unique because he's not played in a traditional 5v5 Tank Frontline, one assasin/mage, Support and ADC that we have all the time now. He was one of the few champions that had to be played entirely differently where you had to make picks as much as possible. Even pro players say that the Rengar changes aren't necessary. I realize that these changes were to rework him so that he becomes more played and more viable but if you're going to change something so that it fits in then it'll lose its uniqueness. In addition, I don't play Rengar because he's viable, I play him because of the way the champ works and the Rework completely changed it.


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MiroBG

Senior Member

04-04-2014

IMO Rengar now is a low tier champ all together. Where is the thrill of the hunt? The one thing that made me fall in love with Rengar (before buying him) was the sudden out of no where jump. That alone has made my hearth skip a few beats. His Q AS buff was a must on the top lane. Now I have to spam spells just to have the AS buff. His skill shot E was a very safe way to harass ranged top champions, but since its a skill shot now Rengar players are forced to hug the tower and hope they don't die. This is where I get really turned off from the reworked Rengar. His ult. Before you could ulted and ferocity would charge during the ult, now its after he breaks stealth. So if you wanted to gank somebody you'll have to have close to full ferocity coming out of the jungle or top, but how are you going to do that when you used your spells on minion/camp clears. His kit (QWER) is not made for him to be a bruiser. Please make the appropriate changes. I'm sure I won't be playing Rengar anytime soon. RIP.


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Eurovapes

Recruiter

04-04-2014

Thanks for messing up my favorite champ RIP Rengar you will be missed


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L3onidas

Member

04-04-2014

The more games I play the more frustrating this becomes. Its a nightmare. In higher elo play it almost feels like you're the HUNTED ..NOT the hunter. People just find it absolutely ok walking up to Rengar going like...I know you cant do anything, you got no damage, and you're still squishy and I WILL kill you instead of fearing your presence. Its a joke. I posted 2 pages ago about a detailed break down of the new Rengar and its just absolutely soul breaking watching this every game. Its super unpleasant, that nasty taste in your mouth having to struggle with your MAIN champ is very discouraging. Considering a long break from this. After all this time, this is what Rengar has come to be, like really. And trust me, I get the learning curve deal but it shouldn't be this complicated. He feels SO sluggish and drawn out. Like I said HIGH ELO game play is just a plain joke with Rengar, absolutely deleted from viability.


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Canstainer

Senior Member

04-04-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dream of Glory View Post
The iconic things that blow through my mind, when I think of playing Rengar are:

1. Stealthing ult that grants vision to rengar so he can "hunt" people fleeing or countergank. The change to rengar's ult that grants nearby enemies knowledge of his incoming gank is absolutely unacceptable. With the changes to the ward system, all it takes is proper warding to counter Rengar's ult. They should be warding, not being alerted Rengar is in very close proximity with his ultimate activated.
2. Rengar's Q ABSOLUTELY should reset the auto attack timer-That's part of the allure, along with the attack speed on his Q. It feels really good to be able to burst with Rengar's Q. I think he should be allowed to double Q but nothing higher than that because then his burst becomes problematic. In all honesty, the defining abilities of Rengar are his Q, because it feels good to stack your attacks with the auto attack reset, and the bonus attack speed was needed to trade with some duelists such as Jax and Irelia, and the attack speed boost/auto attack reset were what made split pushing with rengar a viable tactic. In short, removing the attack speed boost just makes rengar feel useless, because a hunter/assassin should do two things: burst, and have the function of an ability that feels like an assassination move. Rengar's auto attack reset on his Q gave him burst, and followed up with bonus attack speed makes you feel the thrill of the hunt. (It gives a rush of exhilaration having the two auto attacks from an empowered Q followed up immediately with an Attack Speed Steroid).

In short, Rengars attack speed after his auto attack reset and burst in empowered Q, along with his Stealth that grants vision of nearby enemies, were what made him fun. The bola was just a useful ability, I didn't care so much about it. Rengars W, with the roar, fit perfectly with his character concept. I'm only talking about the audio on his W. Honestly, if you were wanting my opinion, I don't think he needs the healing as an assassin, he should be getting that from lifesteal if you ask me. The armor and mr bonus stats on the W were also unecessary, as he isn't really a tank.

If you want to fix rengar, here are my suggestions:

Make his empowered Q give bonus attack speed as before. Normal Q feels good with the auto attack reset, and the bonus attack speed from empowered q brings up his sustained dmg along with a little of his burst.

Next, Make Rengar's ultimate reveal nearby enemies, but DO NOT LET NEARBY ENEMIES KNOW HE IS COMING.
That completely negates the benefit of his stealth. They should be warding properly to know he is coming for them. With the new vision changes, wards are essentially a free get out of death card when used. If they forget to use them or dont drop or buy pinks, that's their fault. Don't punish rengar for their mistakes. If they have vision on Rengar when he ults, it is okay to let him notify the enemy of his intent, ie, saying "Focus...".

[To elaborate on this last paragraph, because I feel this last paragraph was incredibly important:
Rengar's ult should not allow enemies to know he is near. They can get a pink ward trinket and drop it before fights or if they have some advance knowledge of rengars incoming through normal warding or trinkets. Letting them know he is within 1k range, means all they have to do is drop a pink ward trinket and rengar's ult is now compromised. As it currently stands, Rengar has to wait for a fight to start before he can ult into the backline.

When I play rengar, what I want to do, what I ALWAYS want to be doing, is picking the most threatening target, or a vulnerable squishy, and taking them out asap before the fight even starts, or to take them out and force an engage.


That's the FUN of rengar! Pick your target, Burst them down (hopefully) before the enemy team can respond. Wards are cheap and they save lives.

Supports and ADCS/Marksmen should be using them. If the enemy has a shaco/Teemo, etc, they sure as heck better be buying a Sweeping Trinket or a Pink ward trinket. Otherwise they deserve to lose].

Finally, W and E can be balanced AROUND the utility of Rengars ultimate (by basing their cooldowns at certain ranks on the usefulness/rank of rengar's ultimate) and also balanced damage-wise by taking into account the damage that rengar is able to output with his empowered Q/double auto attack.

Rengar's dmg should mainly be coming from his Q. His sustain should mainly be coming from Lifesteal.
Rengar's fun level was directly related to his ability to assassinate targets...I began playing him a lot less when his ability to assassinate, and his ultimate, were nerfed. I found his style of play highly rewarding, deciding that perfect moment to engage in a teamfight with his stealth/brush leap, and balancing his pure raw killing power with the fragility of an assassin and having to be able to assassinate your target while still surviving.

The whole raw nature predator survival aspect was what drew me into enjoying rengar. The vision on his ulty revealing nearby enemies who were fleeing/being ganked, the brush leaping, and his burst (along with his fragility which the healing on his W/empowered W was actually a constant reminder of) were what made him feel high risk high reward. You can debate the high risk aspect, because you could attempt to use his ultimate to escape, but now, with the 3 second delay on his ultimate prior to stealthing, along with his stealth still being highly and simply counterable with certain abilities (lee sin E reveal/Pink ward/Sweeper Trinket), he has been excessively nerfed and remains unviable as an assassin. The only route left to him is Bruiser which in my opinion, is a complete and utter desecration to the playstyle of a ferocious, hunting, assassinating predator. That's all I have to say for now. I truly hope Riot reads this because it is full of my heart, and I explicitly feel that I no longer enjoy rengar due to his changes. I bought him when he was initially released because he was exceptionally refreshing, new, unique in playstyle. His kit had utility with his ultimate. The sustain was generous on his W and his E was highly useful when it was targeted and not a skillshot because the positioning while unloading dps on marksmen/adc wasnt as intensely crucial as it now is due to being blockable/intercepted. Essentially, the targeting was very useful to have if you were nuking the adc/being nuked right back by the adc, and you had to stun an enemy incoming other than the adc--now there's a chance you cant do that because of the difficulty of focusing the adc AND having to possibly aim the skillshot to get around another person to block someone coming for you or an ally at the same time.

Please make his bola targeted again, please grant bonus attack speed on empowered Q, please let Q reset auto attack timer so you can Q then Empowered Q one time only, and please fix rengar's ultimate so it no longer alerts nearby enemies to Rengar (Wards are now free let there be warding, and awareness, not nerfs. Thank you!!!!)
Everything true


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Canstainer

Senior Member

04-04-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by SanSarra View Post
3 pages of people raging, and explaining why the rework is bad.

One persons says it's good => Riot quotes him and answer him.


Is this real? Am I dreaming? Did Riot moved to Russia or smth?
Focus in the facts, they dont listen his fan base.


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aslan256

Senior Member

04-04-2014

I hate rengar rework, I hope anyone who approved of the rengar rework gets fired from riot.


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Darth Karto

Senior Member

04-04-2014

@RiotScruffy

Instead of the exclamation point warning on the ultimate...

how about Rengar just makes a global sound like a global rawr like nocturne to warn everyone and the enemy had to guess who he was stalking?

or how bout Rengar just uses a faint whisper when close to anenemy like "I see you... BEAST" so they really had to pay attention.


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SeikyuHaste

Senior Member

04-04-2014

Did I really read that tuning will take patches? So Rengar will be like this for months?