Rengar Thread of Bolas and Roaring

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DNAgent

Senior Member

04-04-2014

Don't mind me. I'm just here to give Scruffy downvotes. Oh wait...He's asking questions. I'm sure these are rhetorical but I'll bite anyway.

-How are the changes playing for you?

Well, to be honest they're playing pretty ****ty and it's why I gave my (former) favorite champ the name Rengarbage.

-What builds are you using?

General jungle builds that are now worse. Of course there is the occasional tank build where he's still useless. Tried him as a support and ya know, I gotta hand it to you on that one as he's ALMOST a viable support. Other than that, doesn't matter what you build on him because he'll die extremely fast and have no damage to show for it regardless of the build (which is obvious which is why he doesn't lose stacks on death...Ya know, cause he's dying constantly).

-What lanes are you playing him in?

None because he's no longer viable. However, I did try top lane which was terrible because he has no splitpushing ability and can no longer Q towers while champs like TF, Jax, Wukong, Nasus (ESPECIALLY Nasus), can all hit towers with their abilities. However, I did try out jungle...And as you expected, it's garbage. The attack speed on normal Q is gone so he's jungling is worse than it used to be. Not to mention his sustain & ganks are worse considering he doesn't have the speed to clear it fast anymore and everyone knows when he's going to gank with an ult so they'll chill around their tower a bit (unless it's Nasus because he'll continue to AFK farm while you tickle him).

-Finding any bugs?

Oh, I found A LOT of bugs. His regular Q doesn't have any attack speed buffs, his R lets nearby enemies know that he's stealthed, his R gains ferocity AFTER he comes out of stealth (which you have to jump to the target first to even get so no just pressing R again to get the ferocity), and I'm sure there are tons more of these bugs that I'm forgetting but this champ is an absolute mess now. You should NEVER and I mean EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEVER rework another champion again (unless it's Nasus...Feel free to nerf, I mean "rework" his Q).


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SanSarra

Senior Member

04-04-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riot Jag View Post
I'm pretty interested in the builds that people try out on him. In playtest a lot of our experienced Rengar players thought Blade of the Ruined King was really strong on him. I think some people will make the classic Trinity/Sunfire/Spirit Visage build still work though.
3 pages of people raging, and explaining why the rework is bad.

One persons says it's good => Riot quotes him and answer him.


Is this real? Am I dreaming? Did Riot moved to Russia or smth?


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Dream of Glory

Senior Member

04-04-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by SanSarra View Post
OMG you don't get ****.

They DESTROYED Rengar.

Idc if he's rework would work!!!! (even tho now it isn't!)

I want RENGAR. Not some bruiser style cat!!! His playstyle is not the same, he's not a assassin anymore, he has NOTHING previous Rengar had!!

Look at Yi rework: They kept his ap style gameplay, aswell with the ad style, everybody was fkin happy!!! EVERYBODY!


BECAUSE IT WAS GOOD.


THIS IS BAD.


Is that simple enough for you? :l

Jeez...
I too want Assassin rengar back. I don't like this new kitty...bruiser does not equate to his lore. He is a hunter of beasts. He is a H.O.B.

According to hunter superstition, there is ultimately one beast destined to end the life of each person, "the beast with your name on it." Until that beast, the person for which it is intended is invincible. If the hunter carries this beast's tooth at all times, it can never be used against him and the hunter is therefore untouchable.

The term "hob" is actually an acronym derived from the title "Hunter Of beasts", which is the colloquial name for a hunter who killed an enemy in combat. He then has to take a tooth from the enemy- that's the one "with his name on it". The tooth is then worn as a necklace and symbolizes the tooth of a real "hob", expressing his status as a "hunter of beasts".

All other hunters who have not graduated as a hob are considered "pihs", or "Professionally Instructed hunters".

Source: Wikipedia


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SlumlordThanatos

Senior Member

04-04-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by SanSarra View Post
OMG you don't get ****.

They DESTROYED Rengar.

Idc if he's rework would work!!!! (even tho now it isn't!)

I want RENGAR. Not some bruiser style cat!!! His playstyle is not the same, he's not a assassin anymore, he has NOTHING previous Rengar had!!

Look at Yi rework: They kept his ap style gameplay, aswell with the ad style, everybody was fkin happy!!! EVERYBODY!


BECAUSE IT WAS GOOD.


THIS IS BAD.


Is that simple enough for you? :l

Jeez...
Oh? So Rengar was good before his rework?

That's right, he was. He was so good, in fact, that he was banned from LCS play. Because of a bug that allowed him to basically become invisible instant death to anyone squishy.

Rengar was not "good" before his rework; his entire design was a mistake, on account of his kit being obscenely overloaded. Invisible instant death to anyone squishy is not good design, that's why Talon sucks right now. The point to this rework was to take that ability away from him, while trying to make him viable and keep as much of his kit intact as possible.

And they're not going to succeed at keeping Rengar playable at the highest levels of play, simply because his style of play has no means of reacting to it. If it is strong enough to work at the highest level of play, it becomes pick-or-ban simply because there is no good way to deal with it.

Just face it, people. Rengar is the new Talon. A fun-to-play pubstomper who really isn't quite strong enough to see consistent professional play. And that's where stealth assassins should be.

Scruffy is just trying to ease your pain, because this was fated to happen. Don't hate on him.


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SanSarra

Senior Member

04-04-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by SlumlordThanatos View Post
Oh? So Rengar was good before his rework?

That's right, he was. He was so good, in fact, that he was banned from LCS play. Because of a bug that allowed him to basically become invisible instant death to anyone squishy.

Rengar was not "good" before his rework; his entire design was a mistake, on account of his kit being obscenely overloaded. Invisible instant death to anyone squishy is not good design, that's why Talon sucks right now. The point to this rework was to take that ability away from him, while trying to make him viable and keep as much of his kit intact as possible.

And they're not going to succeed at keeping Rengar playable at the highest levels of play, simply because his style of play has no means of reacting to it. If it is strong enough to work at the highest level of play, it becomes pick-or-ban simply because there is no good way to deal with it.

Just face it, people. Rengar is the new Talon. A fun-to-play pubstomper who really isn't quite strong enough to see consistent professional play. And that's where stealth assassins should be.

Scruffy is just trying to ease your pain, because this was fated to happen. Don't hate on him.
You make me puke. I said GTFO, you don't get ****.


Rengar wasn't doing this. If he were, he would be perma picked in LCS. There is no champion who can do this, there is no champion who can split push like him, so why is he NEVER played?

Because 100-0ing a champ isn't doable at high levels of play. If rengar missed his double/triple Q, he was done for.

So yeah, his design is flawed, because there is no way to react to his ultimate. The problem is, even not being really viable (but Rengar actually sees play, has an ok W/L ratio, doesn't stomp everygame he's in etc.), they made it worse.

You don't. Plus you toss your OPINION about stealthed champs, while I'm stating FACTS.

Rengar's kit doesn't allow him to be a bruiser, nor a tank, nor an assassin. He's just bad right now. If you're playing Ranked, there is no reason at ALL to pick Rengar, because now he can't even fill the niche pick of destroying no escape adcs, or split pushing vs not mobile teams. He can't do anything now. His ult just became one of the worst ultimate in the entire game. That's also a fact. Twitch has a better ultimate than Rengar, and ho wait it's not his ultimate!! It's just his Q!!

Won't talk about evelyn,, who's passive is just a permanent Rengar ultimate.

You. don't. get. Anything. so don't talk to me again.


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SlumlordThanatos

Senior Member

04-04-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by SanSarra View Post
You make me puke. I said GTFO, you don't get ****.


Rengar wasn't doing this. If he were, he would be perma picked in LCS. There is no champion who can do this, there is no champion who can split push like him, so why is he NEVER played?

Because 100-0ing a champ isn't doable at high levels of play. If rengar missed his double/triple Q, he was done for.

So yeah, his design is flawed, because there is no way to react to his ultimate. The problem is, even not being really viable (but Rengar actually sees play, has an ok W/L ratio, doesn't stomp everygame he's in etc.), they made it worse.

You don't. Plus you toss your OPINION about stealthed champs, while I'm stating FACTS.

Rengar's kit doesn't allow him to be a bruiser, nor a tank, nor an assassin. He's just bad right now. If you're playing Ranked, there is no reason at ALL to pick Rengar, because now he can't even fill the niche pick of destroying no escape adcs, or split pushing vs not mobile teams. He can't do anything now. His ult just became one of the worst ultimate in the entire game. That's also a fact. Twitch has a better ultimate than Rengar, and ho wait it's not his ultimate!! It's just his Q!!

Won't talk about evelyn,, who's passive is just a permanent Rengar ultimate.

You. don't. get. Anything. so don't talk to me again.
I get quite a lot, actually.

Rengar's kit had everything in it. To demonstrate, I'll give you a brief rundown of his ups-and-downs since his release.

Release Rengar: Pretty broken, but no one really knew how to play him yet. Received QoL buffs.

After that, he started to catch on, and people realized he could insta-delete anyone squishy. Nerfs followed.

People then realized that you could build Rengar tanky and become an utterly unstoppable splitpusher with an instant stealth. More nerfs.

Now this was about the time people discovered the triple-Q bug. Suddenly, Rengar could insta-delete squishies again. Received more nerfs as a band-aid solution so that they could work out the bug, and they never really did. This is when Rengar was disabled in the LCS, otherwise he would be pick-or-ban.

And now the rework is here, trying to preserve as much of his flawed, overloaded kit as they could. They couldn't just scrap it and start again, because that would make the fanboys angry. So, this is what you get instead: a champion who probably isn't even really that bad, but people are *****ing because "they changed it, now it sucks" without even really giving it a real chance.

I'm gonna come back to this thread and gloat when the pros pick Rengar back up.


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Dartheos

Senior Member

04-04-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by DNAgent View Post
Don't mind me. I'm just here to give Scruffy downvotes. Oh wait...He's asking questions. I'm sure these are rhetorical but I'll bite anyway.

-How are the changes playing for you?

Well, to be honest they're playing pretty ****ty and it's why I gave my (former) favorite champ the name Rengarbage.

-What builds are you using?

General jungle builds that are now worse. Of course there is the occasional tank build where he's still useless. Tried him as a support and ya know, I gotta hand it to you on that one as he's ALMOST a viable support. Other than that, doesn't matter what you build on him because he'll die extremely fast and have no damage to show for it regardless of the build (which is obvious which is why he doesn't lose stacks on death...Ya know, cause he's dying constantly).

-What lanes are you playing him in?

None because he's no longer viable. However, I did try top lane which was terrible because he has no splitpushing ability and can no longer Q towers while champs like TF, Jax, Wukong, Nasus (ESPECIALLY Nasus), can all hit towers with their abilities. However, I did try out jungle...And as you expected, it's garbage. The attack speed on normal Q is gone so he's jungling is worse than it used to be. Not to mention his sustain & ganks are worse considering he doesn't have the speed to clear it fast anymore and everyone knows when he's going to gank with an ult so they'll chill around their tower a bit (unless it's Nasus because he'll continue to AFK farm while you tickle him).

-Finding any bugs?

Oh, I found A LOT of bugs. His regular Q doesn't have any attack speed buffs, his R lets nearby enemies know that he's stealthed, his R gains ferocity AFTER he comes out of stealth (which you have to jump to the target first to even get so no just pressing R again to get the ferocity), and I'm sure there are tons more of these bugs that I'm forgetting but this champ is an absolute mess now. You should NEVER and I mean EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEVER rework another champion again (unless it's Nasus...Feel free to nerf, I mean "rework" his Q).
^. On the plus side I kind of like the E changes, except I would still prefer it if it was a targeted spell with maybe 100 or 150 more range, instead of a skillshot with an extra 400 and small hitbox.


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Gnargar

Senior Member

04-04-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkefire View Post
I will do my best to make this sound like I am not bashing Scruffy
(go read it) this! riot take this advice fix rengar


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Furi Kuri II

Member

04-04-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by SlumlordThanatos View Post
snip
You should take a logic class, you literally have no argument. You used a fallacy, appealing to authority to justify why Rengar is good.


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TheNoodleNinja

Junior Member

04-04-2014

Ok so, I know that bruiser Rengar is really good now, but the issue I have is with assassin Rengar. He's listed as an assassin, so you'd think he'd be able to assassinate people. I guess if he had a nice time in lane the rework wouldn't make much of a difference, you could just ult q someone with 5 stacks, slow them, q them again, yell at them and then snare them or 5 stack q them again. It seems so simple!

The problem is that when you're in lane, you have a really hard time building damage. It keeps coming back to the fact that Rengar just cant trade anymore. If you're building like an assassin, you don't have defensive stats. Theoretically this shouldn't make much of a difference because your w should keep you alive and you have an e for disengage. Again, seems super simple, just build lifesteal so you don't need to use w. The problem is, your q doesn't grant attack speed. You can't kill anyone in lane because you're constantly using your w to not die because you don't put out enough damage fast enough to not get murdered. Essentially what the rework has done is made sure that Rengar has a horrible time in lane unless he's building tanky, and then you're not even getting any damage until your 3rd item. Obviously I'll keep trying new builds and favoring different skills, but it seems like damage Rengar just doesn't work anymore. I mean, it's not really a problem I guess, he can still kind of jump on people when he has 4 big items, it just seems a little backwards. Zed builds damage and gets defensive items late game, Rengar has to build defensive items to survive the early game and may or may not get enough damage to murder people somewhat quickly.