I am D1 Rengar main, been playing Rengar since its release.
Ive tested the new Rengar on my main and on my alt and on my friend's PBE.
My conclusion is, Rengar has become a regular top tank bruiser like renek / jax.
Reason? These two changes are why.
1) Q attack speed buff is removed, and it no longer attacks towers.
2) R charges ferocities when breaking out of stealth, the movement speed during stealth is reduced,and the it alerts opponents while stealthed. (1000 radius ouch)
Because of R nerf, you can no longer burst as much as before. (Because now you get ferocities over time after unstealting). The burst is not any stronger than Renekton who goes equal build, and Rengar is not as tanky as Renek. So because Rengar's burst is less now, Rengar is forced to stay in fight longer to do dmg. You cannot do this by going full dmg build, so you will have to get some tank items.
This is reinforced by Q nerf. Because of Q's attack speed buff is removed and it no longer targets towers, Rengar's ability to split push has significantly decreased. Precisely speaking, it is no longer effective. Again, this forces Rengar to participate more in teamfite situations.
So in conclusion, overall changes suggest that Rengar should focus in teamfites more with the new changes. And with the new changes, we all know Rengar can no longer burst an enemy down, instead, it's more effective to stay alive longer and do dmg overtime. I dont see how Rengar is different from regular top tank bruisers like Jax and Renekton now. Rengar's role has become like them. Go tanky with one or two dmg items, and be the frontline of the team.
Riot, is this what you aim Rengar to be? Maybe not, but guess what? The new changes makes him that way, because playing him differently makes him less effective now.
***More things you should think about.
1) Rengar's easter egg with Kha is pointless. Rengar gains nothing from winning it.
2) You may not have thought about it, but because you gain R overtime after breaking out of stealth on R, it penalizes Rengar upon death. Just like Shyvana who cant use dragonform right away after death when it's a situation where you have to defend the base, Rengar is less effective in defending base now with ult because you dont do much without max ferocities, and without the previous burst with R.
3) E change is fun, but it simply isnt as effective as you wished it to be. It has way too low return for using max ferocities + risking it to go a waste. In many situations, just using max Q is far far better after following up with normal E. I mean, interesting change, but doesnt really affect the game play as much as you thought it would.
Lastly, I dont mind how you are keep changing Rengar, but I dont like this version, simply because it's boring and because its playstyle doesnt differentiate Rengar from other top tank bruisers. It's really boring, and that shouldnt be the impression I get from a champ I love so much haha. I think many people would agree with me on the 'boring' part.
Riot, it would be really nice for you to clarify your intention for me. Is this what you really aimed for? Again, i am not saying new Rengar is weak. It is strong in teamfites if you go tank items, probably stronger in teamfite situations than before that way. But is this what you aimed for? Did you aim Rengar to become a tank sustain fighter?
Honest to goodness I like new rengar. I build a BotRK and Trinity, then just straight tank(maybe a Blackcleaver as well) but honestly the ultimate alert is not needed at all, and his Q is too slow. It sometimes doesn't proc when jumping out of bush, and it's too slow when just straight scrapping. I've canceled it many times by accident but it really feels unresponsive. But this patch actually killed jungle rengar. He is only viable top.
I play him a lot, and I think in general he feels very similar except I have a bit more options, which is chill.
Here's my main problems--
Idk if it's a bug or what, but sometimes my leap won't apply my Q or Empowered Q. It's very frustrating as an assasin for my burst to not work.
Second- W makes the heal sound effect even if you don't heal
Rengar feels like trash. I actively feel bad for playing him.
There are a few things in this thread that I've read that I don't think people understand.
His Ult is better in the ferocity generation department, I don't think that people understand how much weaker Ren would be if he had his old ult generation in his current state, he'd be significantly worse, even the move speed out of ult is a pretty good addition. Everything else that was changed/added to his ult is garbage.
-I have an ult on a 2 minute cd, I shouldn't give a freaking warning to everyone in the area that I'm about to get into range to jump on you, it's not that I'm already in range, I'm outside of my actual jump range, it's stupid. I ulted to chase down an MF, she saw the warning and bolted, with nothing but her passive she stayed outside of my leap range, I had the extra mobi boots passive on my bonetooth and I still couldn't catch her.
-Combined with the fact that now I show up at the beginning of my leap it makes it difficult to actually do anything. With the warning, the jump change, and the stupid Q bug they have an extra 2~3 seconds to react before I can actually deal damage, wtf is that? On top of the fact that it takes an extra 2~3 seconds to actually complete my combo. With the fact that it takes 4~6 to burst people, the fact that you made said burst more unreliable, and the fact that you lowered his immediate burst essentially means that Rengar doesn't actually have burst anymore. Lets not even get into the delay you added between emp abilities and normal abilities, which tacks on an extra .5 seconds or so.
-So he's now a bruiser, unfortunately Rengar has neither the bases nor the utility to be a bruiser, so he can't do that either. So he's left with a tank role, but he still has no utility so he can't do that either. Wtf do you do with Rengar?
-W is actively worse in almost every scenario outside of a teamfight or small skirmishes, both of which are scenarios Rengar sucks in. At max rank you get an extra 2(yes 2) armor and mr over old W against a single, but you heal less in most scenarios unless you're almost dead. It still sucks ass in the jungle too.
-Q feels like trash, it's your best means of generating ferocity, so you have to max it, but it's clunky and slow. It makes his jungle significantly more painful and slow, his base hp and hp/5 are still trash, you end up almost dead after your first clear, and it pretty much stays that way until you get a completed jungle item, even then getting lizard does nothing for you because your single target deeps are slow as balls and your aoe damage is nonexistant. You don't actually clear fast enough to make good use of wriggles/feral flare either, but that's pretty much his best item.
-E. I dunno what to say about E. As Ren is now it's pretty much his lifeline. When you ult you need to lead with emp E to actually do damage. E however is slow, narrow, and too easy to miss, you miss E and you won't be able to keep your target close enough to you to actually do damage, and given the way his ult works, it's difficult to actually get to a target and when you do you're literally right on top of them, so you have to shuffle around to make sure your E won't just fly off. And you have to make sure your target is far enough away from any impeding obstacles so you don't hit the wrong target(so you want the target isolated so you don't miss E, if you miss E you aren't doing damage, but having an isolated target means you aren't really benefiting from W buffs, so at the end of the day it was pointless ironically). Only issue is that everyone else is gonna be shuffling around too(on top of the previous mentioned issue), and the support spends half their life on top of the carry, so hitting E is a pain in the ass. Sadly E got the best lot out of these changes
As it stands Rengar has no strengths, no goal, and he actively feels bad to play, there's nothing satisfying in his kit. You say old Rengar was too binary, but he's even worse now. At least before he could build assassin, kill the squishy and die or die trying, or splitpush, or he could build tank not be a damage or cc threat in TF's but be able to splitpush. Now he can't build assassin, and he can't splitpush. You pretty much removed one of the two options he had as a build path, and completely removed the only utility he had in the other.
-There's 0 reason for Q to not have attacks speed, you lowered the damage on Emp Q and double Q's burst, and made it so that neither interact with towers. Old Q and new Q even out thanks to the effective permanent 50% attack speed buff the former gave, so you can't actually say the damage went up.
-Rengar has no escape or general utility as a champ, he does nothing productive.
-Why the hell does he have a global cd between emp and normal abilities?
-Bump up the static move speed buff during stealth to 20% or so, so I can actually catch people, I can't use it to run away because the move speed buff only applies when chasing a champ, and they'll always know I'm in the area so I can't actually just stealth and sit still to juke anymore either. Or remove the goddamned warning.
-Fix E so that it'll be able to hit a target I'm right on top of
-Remake Rengar from the ground up, because you guys fail at trying to fix **** while keeping the general feel, so it comes out half-assed.
- You added so much counterplay to Rengar's kit that he feels like **** to play. His kit isn't complex enough nor does it allow for enough variation for this to work, he's not Zed or Yasuo, his outplay potential is severely limited.
I just wanted to thank you for responding to my novel Riot Jag!
Also, you mentioned a curiosity for what I defined as winning lane as an assassin.
To be brief, I have the idea (or misconception) that assassins are partially meant to farm champs (i.e. assassins like LB and Talon in the mid lane are very capable of killing the opposition). This doesn't necessarily translate up to top lane, but I believe Rengar truly wins lane through an early kill (whereas he can manipulate the lane and afford to gank other lanes).
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