Rengar Thread of Bolas and Roaring

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Wero34

Senior Member

04-11-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archæ View Post
Yeah this. So, why old rengar was able to 0-100 targets in 1-2 secs? cause his main damage output was only his Q, his other 3 was mainly utility. No combos no chain skills, just raw damage, so his role is clear, he just jump and kill and repeat, any other role is just useless.


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jgamma100

Junior Member

04-11-2014

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...;v=_3ADtkc--V0

this man speaks truth


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noponzo

Senior Member

04-11-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archæ View Post
please look into this


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alfavhunter

Senior Member

04-11-2014

Fixing rengar (edit: this dies not include big fixes as those should be fixed ASAP like in a hot fix...)

q damage increased and effects turrets (still no AS so no crazy push power)

Provides Bonus damage when used in monsters

W reworked. Now reduces damage by 15%+2.5% per champion or monster struck (big and small) for 2/2.5/3/3.5/4 seconds, this duration is increased by .25 seconds while taking damage from monsters up to an extra 2 seconds

W damage now scales on ad instead of ap

E speed sped up, ad ratio increased, the duration increases when the target is farther away from rengar, and reveals targets struck

FQ works in turrets

FW also increases rengars healing there after by 0+5%/lvl (increasing all outside healing effects like life steal being healed, exc (this makes the weak heal it currently gives heal no more but helps him heal by life steal and other healing effects more beneficial, keeping this as an actual option in a fight after rengar gets life steal) for 3 seconds

FE root duration increases based on distance

R warning removed

FR (new) rengar can activate this when at full ferocity (and having the spell unlocked) to consume his ferocity increase his MS by 3%/lvl and grant him unseen predator for 2 seconds, if he pounces on an enemy champion he regains 1/2/3 ferocity (based on lvl of R for ferocity refund)


This is just my personal ideas of course


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unhiddenninja

Member

04-11-2014

I would love to see a red response to this video, this guy puts everything together better than I could. The only thing in the video I have the slightest disagreement with is the ult indicator. I skimmed through this entire thing and saw that it was going to be changed so that it only pops up when he would have been seen anyway, and I think that is good for both the person playing Rengar and the person playing against against him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3ADtkc--V0&hd=1

I really liked the idea of a rework and Rengar still has a unique play style but I just feel like too much of his damage was taken away, he's no longer good at what he used to do and the way his abilities are now makes it hard for him to excel at anything else.


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RyuPhalian

Senior Member

04-11-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
The bug is fixed on the pbe as we'll.
Ok, so you fixed the Q-bug. What about the other bugs?


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Ryback

Recruiter

04-11-2014

After testing the new rengar in lots of situations (team builder queues, ranked diamond V, top lane, jungle, blind picks, and queueing with friends), I have to say he just feels weak. All of his viability is loaded entirely onto his ultimate's speed boost post stealth to stick to targets and the overwhelming damage of his either double empowered q or w armor/mr stack + heal. In team fights he can only realistically fight during the duration of his ultimate speed boost and forcing himself to be targetted or erase an carry/weak target from the fight. His E has flat out too much easy counter play.

He very much feels like a weaker jax or irelia in that they want to stick to their target and do consistent damage, only without the ability to do so in groups or when minions are involved. He can only perform like said champions when people are in the jungle and knowingly take the path with bushes, or when he has his super speed boost ult.

In top lane, the only place I feel he's viable right now simply because you can play safe and farm then proceed to use your ult to roam after your turret inevitably falls or you all in while you have a good amount of hp, 5 stacks, and your ult. This viewpoint may be skewed somewhat because I only ever fight renektons, trundles, shyvanas, and nidalees (with the honorable yasuo mention) who just flat out bully you into sitting under turret. These champions out trade you at every single turn with the exception of nidalee, who wins the lane by sheer bush control and the fact that she out pokes, out sustains, and even out damages you at level 6 in a melee fight unless you ult in or she decides to tank you with 5 ferocity. All situations experienced players completely avoid and just safe farm.

But this is more of an issue with the "choose a sustaining bully" top lane meta because they all outshine champions of other varieties in top lane. Basically Rengar needs some base stat buffs up here to contend or just shouldn't be picked top. Especially because when he's behind he cannot farm, with the cooldown of skills per level up only going down on q, you basically have to level q first to expedite the fury gaining process to get to the meat of rengar's kit, the empowered abilities. This means throughout the laning phase you have to last hit under turret or try to use a 50 base damage bola with a 12(I think) second cooldown bola which champions who can bully you will simply take to the face and heal all that damage back in 3 auto attacks. Then when you're playing from behind you can't even quickly split push anymore because his non-empowered q was gutted until you have a decent amount of AD +, and even then it does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to turrets.

Yes, his previous turret killing speed was one of the most obnoxious and annoying things in the game. But this is an extreme case of overcompensation because not many other champions push worse than rengar now(unless he has a hydra). Once you hit 5 ferocity stacks it becomes a bad idea to use them on anything but an enemy champion while you're pushing, because you cannot build stacks on the turret. This means your minion clearing is regulated to auto attacks with no quick method of traveling between minions to kill them fast. By the time you clear out a minion wave to maintain your cs you've lost almost as many pushing minions to the enemy turret. Alternatively you can empowered q a minion and turn on the turret, this leaves you at 2 ferocity left at best if you walked at the turret with 5 stacks to begin with. This is a not so common situation and more often you will be under the 2 ferocity safe zone that lets you use your empowered abilities and essentially be a threat to enemy champions. In short, his split pushing/turret killing speed is really really low compared to almost every top laner, especially for one with such poor mobility (outside of bushes).

His kit still heavily favors playing from the jungle, even more so now with the skillshot e(which I feel moves too slowly) only he doesn't have the stats to be an effective jungler. His health regen is still abyssmal at what looks to be 9 hp 5 at level 1 if memory serves and his empowered w barely makes a dent until about level 10 or so you actually have net higher hp if you just empowered q burn down the big minion/save said stacks to do the same on the next pack. Due to the fact that you almost always have life leech by level 10 this holds true for very nearly the entire game.

His first clear without a rather strong leash leaves him using 4 to 5 his potions to be at full hp to gank right after getting his 2 buffs + level 3. This basically means he needs to either have a good gank target instantly, know where the enemy jungler is to fight him asap, or farm and put himself in a position where he has to hope he never runs into the enemy jungle until he goes back to shop to have some sustain because he will be floating between 40% to 70% hp in this time; this feels extremely limiting. This may be true to alot of junglers but this is especially bad on rengar because currently he MUST use his 5 stack ferocity to clear camps and if he ever doesn't have it up, he's not a match in a jungle fight unless you're chasing down a straggler. There's never a time I go into a game thinking "Oh man this looks like a good Rengar game" or even "I can probably get away with playing Rengar" this game.

TLDR; version

Rengar has been a more sustained DPS champion with zero split pushing power and no additional tankyness(in 1v1 situations). He's like jax/irelia with positional counter play and worse base stats. He wins fights when he ults with 2 empowered abilities + movement speed if people mistakenly choose to fight you, and loses in every other situation during lane.(too much power devoted to his ult) His team fight is different, rather than improved. In situations where he needs to go in and tank he can actually do that now to great effect with his speed buff and improved W with his empowered q to w to empowered w combo that makes him both a threatening champion for whoever he jumps on and really tanky with 6 seconds of alot of bonus free armor and MR. His early jungle clear is also subpar but not the worse, still needs improvement.

Suggested changes:

Make Q work on turrets, just don't give it the bonus damage. Not being able to build ferocity stacks on turrets feels really bad and is basically all risk no reward.

His jungle clear needs some love, especially early. The q damage will help but it can almost never compensate for the loss of attack speed he used to have. Perhaps add an effect to bola, attacking a bola'd target gives you % increased attack speed. Just throwing ideas out.

Since he's on live like this now I highly doubt new mechanics will make it into the game, so I'm betting only stat changes will happen. In any case, he needs some love and badly. Please make him at least feel viable this was my favorite champion =(.


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Orvan

Junior Member

04-11-2014

I really want the old Q back. I actually liked split pushing with him.


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Canstainer

Senior Member

04-11-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orvan View Post
I really want the old Q back. I actually liked split pushing with him.
everybody budd, but scruffy, wants to be "creative"


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Spontaneous Kid

Junior Member

04-11-2014

All of his abilities seem slow. His q isn't as effective as it used to be and i feel the warning for his presence should be when he gets in leaping range at least.