Rengar Thread of Bolas and Roaring

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noponzo

Senior Member

04-06-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
To be clear about Rengar's role in a team, we wanted to leave this mostly unchanged. He is still the guy that hunts the enemy squishies and can stalk around choosing his prey at will. His damage is lowered some, but we still want him to be a strong damage threat.

He is unique from some of the other assassins like zed or kha zix because he has much more versatility with his ferocity skills (CC, Damage, Heals, many options here). On the other hand, some other assassins have escapes, where he does not. Considering he doesn't have a reliable escape once he has engaged, we gave him some more tools like durability and speed so that once he is in, he has a means of contributing.

As far as items, we're not designing towards any "right" way to build Rengar. He scales well with both offensive and defensive items and that is something that is cool about him as a character.

Keep in mind, we're not going to leave Rengar out to dry if he has problems/needs changes. We already have a bunch of changes planned for the next patch like speeding up the Q attack animations significantly, and some ult warning changes that we have been talking about in this thread. We should have a bunch more data soon, which will help inform us if he needs more changes, and where.

I appreciate all of the feedback, and I know that change can be frustrating on a character that you know and love so well. Don't fear for Rengar, he's not going away anytime soon.
its great that you want him to be able to build damade but for that to be possible its not only the Q speed that needs changed its damage is just to low right now or els even with the speed change people would atleast be accepting that he can kill ADC at a good speed assassins do not kill in 4-5 sec it just doesnt work with the game play speed maybe 2-3 would be acceptable since he has a little bit of tankyness to him but him main role has always been assassin take that away and you will continue to get flamed which i dont feel bad about with this re work just my honest oppinion i am trying to give feed back now posting alot on how i think you could fix what you have done but waiting weeks for patches is just not worth the continued play time on him so like most people im forced to play other champs untill you do manage to fix him


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Atyres

Senior Member

04-06-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
Things like damage numbers are never set in stone. We will make adjustments to his damage if we overdid the changes. Real data will give us lots of information about how the changes turned out: Is his early game too weak? Is his late game too strong? etc.. Depending on what we find, adjustments will be made. It's unfortunate that we cant play millions of test games with any changes before they release, but the least we can do is respond to the real data once the changes are live.

so why didn't you just readjust number on the kit people already liked...


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noponzo

Senior Member

04-06-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
Things like damage numbers are never set in stone. We will make adjustments to his damage if we overdid the changes. Real data will give us lots of information about how the changes turned out: Is his early game too weak? Is his late game too strong? etc.. Depending on what we find, adjustments will be made. It's unfortunate that we cant play millions of test games with any changes before they release, but the least we can do is respond to the real data once the changes are live.
his early game its hard to trade with current Q damage is just low and without the bonus AS you have no sustained damage against real bruisers unfortunately this same problem is his late game problem without the bonus AS especially with the low damage his Q now does in the late game since its scale is really poor for a primary damage ability its just feels like a glorified AA not really what he needs

i would say keep it so it cant hit towers that way he cannot get out of hand with tower pushing but give it the AS bonus back and improve its damage because the current rengar cannot fight other bruiser in or out of lane and cannot assassinate any ADC even if they build all damage items without lifesteal he is just to weak


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abbasqamar

Senior Member

04-06-2014

i have 450 normal combine season 3 and season 4 100 games with rengar under my belt and since last august i was playing rengar non stop.

after 4.1 patch the triple Q nerfed i was still playing rengar but after rework i cant play with rengar reason we know that i am not going in technical detail but

Scurffy!!!

since the rework on rengar i really dont know wt to do!! wt to play i am just spectating and watching LCS


probably if you are not gonna fix the rengar nerf i am gonna uninstall this game along with my team partners

i really dont know wt to do without rengar!!! bcz i really really love rengar no matter i win or i lost!!!


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t4tNoFp4Ve

Senior Member

04-06-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
We have an ult change coming in the next patch that will not alert enemies if you wouldn't be visible to them outside of stealth. This is really big for when he is ganking or approaching his targets from a brush or near walls. It was pretty silly to alert the enemy when Rengar wouldn't have been visible out of stealth anyway, you guys were totally right on this one.

Also, the Q and Empowered Q attack animations are getting significantly sped up. This will fix a lot of the "my Q didn't go off" cases, and it's a non trivial buff in his dps output over time.

This isn't the end, but it's what I can say is coming with certainty right now.
Give me a reason as to WHY i should use my ULTIMATE ability with a LENGTHY CD to gank from a bush....

If you are already on a bush, and they didnt see you go in there WHY DO YOU NEED TO USE AN ULTI FOR THE GANK?

You still have the jump from the brush, you dont generate Ferocity while on ulti....nothing

This "no warning if he wouldnt be visible" is an overly stupid idea, if they wouldnt have see you -if out of stealth- serves absolutely no purpose, because you already choose a good path without the needed of your ultimate, and you are already set up

REMOVE THE WARNINGS or Give him a new ultimate ~ if you must ruin another champ, taking away their core things (Skarner's perma-slow tank style, and now Rengar's predatory style, because NO, RENGAR IS NOT THE GUY THAT HUNTS SQUISHIES ANYMORE), then at least make them useful


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Velkoz Reloaded

Senior Member

04-06-2014

I'm just curious (sorry if someone has suggested this already) but why not have the entire Enemy Team be notified when Rengar ults (similar to Nocturne's alert but just with the explanation points). That way when he ults, they have no idea who he's actually near. That seems fair to me but I don't play Rengar often so...

Anyway glad to see some changes coming.


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noponzo

Senior Member

04-06-2014

bump


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Hawkefire

Senior Member

04-06-2014

RiotScruffy: Destroyer of champion identities.

At least with Morello's nerfs our champions identity is preserved, we don't even get that from Scruffy.


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Rengar is life

Member

04-06-2014

As I said, I will continue to bring this up until it gets addressed.

Why is Rengar's splitpushing important? Because Rengar is a champion devoted to all ining. Do you know what happens if you fall behind? You can't all in. Rengar has no secondary goal. All you can do now is jump in again and pray that maybe this time you'll actually win- you won't, but because you have nothing else to do there's no reason not to. It sucks even more because you made him so level-oriented that falling behind the XP curve means you should surrender unless someone on your team is excessively fed.

Why are Rengar's competitors (Shyv, Trynd, Trundle, Renekton etc) allowed to keep their splitpushing when Rengar loses his?

Tryndamere and Shyvana are MUCH safer than Rengar when splitpushing. Splitpushing was one of Rengar's major strengths that you completely scrapped- he lost a spot on MANY MANY team comps because of this.

He also lost his spot on every other team comp because now he brings nothing someone else doesn't bring.


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jgamma100

Junior Member

04-06-2014

i read everything here, and so far seen , mostly everything has been touched on, the only thing i would like to question you about is, his q on towers. In one of your earlier post, a rioter said his split tower push was absurdly obnoxious, now yes id agree the massive attack speed plus q's felt a little much. but taking the attack speed alone, was enough of a dps reduction, to still allow his q to hit towers, never have i felt such sorrow, to see my q animation go off, but it doesn't affect the tower. if you feel as if its absurd, you can look at many other champions that can currently do so, i mean have you seen trundles split push in the lcs recently? its ridiculous.

TL;DR the removal of attack speed was enough to allow him to still hit towers.